On The Beach refusing Refund Please help !!!

Chrisk1969

I had booked a Package Holiday with OTB back in feb for flights and hotel to Lanzarote on 14th July. ( already had existing travel insurance from last year that auto renews on 21 july) I paid the flights and the hotel costs were due to come off my credit card on 30th june
On 19th June I had an email from the hotel direct stating that they would be closed. I informed OTB on 23rd June who stated that some one would be in touch to offer an alternate hotel as the flights are still going. I asked if I didnt like the alternate can i get a full refund and was told yes
On 1st July OTB rang and tried to offer an alternate.Hotel no 2 I said it wasnt suitable and was not happy I couldnt get the hotel we booked. She told me we cant get a refund as the flights were none refundable and they had to find an alternate hotel.  she said she would be back in touch
I messaged the MY bookings every day stating I wanted a full refund and kept being told it was a minor change and basically tough.
on 6th July I got an email with a new ATOL cert stating this was my new Hotel. no 3 They hadnt called or emailed to ask if I wanted it. again I messaged every day stating I wasnted a refund. ( the money was already taken from my credit card )
I checked their T & C's and it stated that a minor change was a change to accomodation and no refund whilst a change to hotel area was a significant change and qualified for a full refund. They are refusing point blank stating its a minor change. 
I checked the Package travel regs and they state that a significant change is a hotel being closed hence I should receive a refund.
I rang ABTA and started to tell them about On The Beach and the guy stopped me asking ( is it Lanzarote by any chance ) apparantly I'm not the first to complain.
I have started a dispute ( Chargeback ) with my credit card company and kept giving OTB a chance to refund but They are being adamant, just sending messages and refusing a refund. Is this fraud as they took my money knowing they could not provide a service.
I am not ringing them again as the last call cost me nearly £30.00
Any Advice ????
Surely someone needs to look into On The Beach !!!!

eskbanker

Chrisk1969 said:

I checked the Package travel regs and they state that a significant change is a hotel being closed hence I should receive a refund.

Exactly where do you see this specified in those regulations (as opposed to interpretation on other sites)?

It's certainly debatable whether OTB's Ts & Cs would survive close scrutiny in a court, but for now they're what you signed up to, and they do indeed regard accommodation change (to an equivalent standard alternative) as an insignificant change that neither obliges them to offer a refund nor requires them to seek your approval.  You mention ABTA but their advice is clear at https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/frequently-asked-questions/my-holiday-company-has-changed-my-accommodation-can:

ABTA's advice

If the change is to accommodation within the same resort and of a similar standard as the accommodation originally booked, it won’t normally be regarded as a significant alteration.

Chrisk1969

I was looking on the abta site

A company should only make a significant change to any part of your package for reasons beyond their control, e.g. the airline changes the flight to a day later or the hotel is closed due to hurricane damage.  

In this case they will need to do the following:

• Tell you about the change and give you a reasonable period of time to decide if you want to accept it or cancel with a full refund. You have the right to accept the change or to cancel the package and receive a full refund within 14 days. The travel company will also offer you alternative holidays if they’re able to do so.
• Inform you that if you do not respond they will treat that as acceptance of the alteration or treat the booking as cancelled and return your money. If you do not respond within the time period given, they must contact you again and ask a second time for your decision. 

If the significant change is made for reasons that are not beyond the travel company’s control they may need to offer you compensation.

It may be in the same resort but it is not what we booked. Their T & C is very vague eg

Examples of insignificant changes include alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours, changes to aircraft type, change of accommodation to another of the same or higher standard 

or eg

Examples of “significant changes” include the following, when made before departure: 

A change of accommodation area for the whole or a significant part of your time away

So what is change of accomodation _ change of room type, change of board against what is change of accomodation area - this is not specific, how big is the area !!!

we did not want the hotel offered - aside from the bad reviews about thefts. We have now lost all our money. Why should we pay for a service we have not received. Sorry to vent !!!

Caz3121

Chrisk1969 said:

Examples of insignificant changes include alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours, changes to aircraft type, change of accommodation to another of the same or higher standard 

or eg

Examples of “significant changes” include the following, when made before departure: 

A change of accommodation area for the whole or a significant part of your time away

So what is change of accomodation _ change of room type, change of board against what is change of accomodation area - this is not specific, how big is the area !!!

I would argue that if you have booked to go to Playa Blanca and they offer you another hotel in Playa Blanca of the same or higher star rating that is insignificant
If they were to offer you an alternative hotel in Costa Teguise I would argue that was a different area so significant (maybe they would disagree)
Have you looked on their site to see what accommodation is showing for your original area at the same or better standard that would be acceptable to you and ask for that...you could always say "we would find x, y or z acceptable"...may save all the backwards and forwards with them finding you alternatives and you rejecting them....or do you not wish to travel at all?

eskbanker

Chrisk1969 said:

I was looking on the abta site

A company should only make a significant change to any part of your package for reasons beyond their control, e.g. the airline changes the flight to a day later or the hotel is closed due to hurricane damage.

That doesn't actually say that a change of hotel is automatically construed as a significant change, although I can see how it might be read that way.  My quote from elsewhere on the ABTA site clearly shows that they don't inherently consider accommodation change as significant.

The actual regulations (schedule 1 thereof) require that the following are preserved:

2.  The travel destination, the itinerary and periods of stay, with dates and, where accommodation is included, the number of nights included.

[...]

5.  The location, main features and, where applicable, tourist category of the accommodation under the rules of the country of destination.

6.  The meals which are included in the package.

[...]

Chrisk1969 said:

It may be in the same resort but it is not what we booked. Their T & C is very vague eg

Examples of insignificant changes include alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours, changes to aircraft type, change of accommodation to another of the same or higher standard 

or eg

Examples of “significant changes” include the following, when made before departure: 

A change of accommodation area for the whole or a significant part of your time away

So what is change of accomodation _ change of room type, change of board against what is change of accomodation area - this is not specific, how big is the area !!!

I'd interpret "change of accommodation to another of the same or higher standard" to mean a different hotel (or apartment, villa, etc, if applicable), while I'd see "change of accommodation area" as meaning a different resort.

Chrisk1969

They did not even give us any options of hotel they just changed it. and wouldnt answer any messages. We were forced into it.
Due to this we did not travel. In some previous messages they had initially offered the refund of the hotel costs but not the flight as it was non refundable 
Quote " Alternatively we can cancel and refund you the hotel cost, and if your airline decides to cancel your flights at a later date we can claim the refund for you."
Is this not a sort of admission of liability ?

[Deleted User]

No, it's not.

Chrisk1969

So what are the chances of getting any money back hotel and/or flights.
Do I go with a credit card company charge back or section 75

eskbanker

Chrisk1969 said:

So what are the chances of getting any money back hotel and/or flights.
Do I go with a credit card company charge back or section 75

You could try your card company, but in the circumstances they're unlikely to refund you either - if On The Beach don't accept any liability then they'll presumably challenge an attempted chargeback, and a s75 claim would only succeed if you can demonstrate breach of contract, and On The Beach appear to have acted in accordance with the contract.

Your travel insurance is likewise unlikely to be willing to refund, as they'll regard your actions as disinclination to travel, i.e. it was your choice not to go ahead with the trip.

From your OP, I think your only prospect of getting any of your money back will be to formally complain to On The Beach regarding their flawed advice that you'd have some sort of right of veto over their alternative accommodation and that this would ultimately allow you to obtain a refund, so if you have reasonable evidence of this then you could try that avenue....

Chrisk1969

Thanks ( but its on the beach )

Chrisk1969

even though in one of their messages they did actually state they could refund the hotel only