New Build lofts - 'very difficult' to convert as opposed to traditional?

Doozergirl

Why are we even talking about a loft conversion, that doesn't yet exist, not having Building Control Approval? 

Just get it.  

snowcat75

AdrianC said:

jimbog said:

You won't be able to use it as a bedroom without building regs

Of course you can.

Is somebody from the local council is going to leap out of the airing cupboard at 11pm, clad in hivis, waving a clipboard, as you meander towards the steps with a mug of cocoa and a good book?

No, of course not. They may well be able to make you apply for retrospective BR sign-off, for a short while, but not after that.

You may have issues saying "Yes, that room with a bed in is definitely a bedroom, honest" if and when you come to sell it, if the EA or putative buyers are a bit eyebrow-raisey about paperwork. Nothing a useless indemnity won't sort, of course.

Exactly, 
I'm currently selling an old 1952 built bungalow, which was built as one of 8 as workers houses by my father, they've only ever moved around the family with a very limited paper trail (or none except dead of gift) and I only bothered registering mine in 2005.

Sometime in the last 70 years it grew dormers and an upstairs, was rewired, had the boiler changed from coal to oil (i believe I might of done it in 96!!) had a small extension put on the side, had UPVC windows put in, the list is endless..... and there's not a whole lot of paperwork to show.

Is BC going to knock on the door, of course not, is this common for a lot of older property's of course it is....

Can rooms that were put in sometime from 1952-2020 still be sold as rooms, bedrooms or whatever, of course they can......



 

jimbog

Can rooms that were put in sometime from 1952-2020 still be sold as rooms, bedrooms or whatever, of course they can......



 

Unfortunately it would not be possible to convert a loft and call it a 'bedroom' in 2020 without it complying with building regs. A bed in a room does not a bedroom make

AdrianC

jimbog said:

Unfortunately it would not be possible to convert a loft and call it a 'bedroom' in 2020 without it complying with building regs. A bed in a room does not a bedroom make

By whose standard?

You can call it a pink unicorn, if you so wish. Nobody is going to stop you.

You can put a bed in a room and sleep in it. Nobody is going to stop you.

jimbog

AdrianC said:

jimbog said:

Unfortunately it would not be possible to convert a loft and call it a 'bedroom' in 2020 without it complying with building regs. A bed in a room does not a bedroom make

By whose standard?

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/36/loft_conversion/3

This was an interesting case a few years ago:
https://thenegotiator.co.uk/30220-2/

AdrianC

jimbog said:

AdrianC said:

jimbog said:

Unfortunately it would not be possible to convert a loft and call it a 'bedroom' in 2020 without it complying with building regs. A bed in a room does not a bedroom make

By whose standard?

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/36/loft_conversion/3

This was an interesting case a few years ago:
https://thenegotiator.co.uk/30220-2/

Did you actually bother to read either of those?

Nobody leapt out of the airing cupboard with a clipboard in either of them, "NO DRESSING GOWN AND SLIPPERS BEYOND THIS POINT"

The first was an EA was told they shouldn't have given details on a place extended without signoff to somebody who specifically asked for "three bed", without at least telling them there hadn't been signoff.

The second merely says "Yep, signoff is required". Retrospective signoff can only be ordered for a very limited period.

thearchitect

I will merely observe that the Building Regulations exist for a purpose somewhat more important than merely inconveniencing property owners, and those who ignore them do so at their own risk.

snowcat75

jimbog said:

Can rooms that were put in sometime from 1952-2020 still be sold as rooms, bedrooms or whatever, of course they can......



 

Unfortunately it would not be possible to convert a loft and call it a 'bedroom' in 2020 without it complying with building regs. A bed in a room does not a bedroom make

That's a different point though, but it highlights that compliance changes all the time, what complied 5 years ago doesn't complie now, but in all honesty if a person builds on there own property lives there for 25 years in 25 years time whatever the rooms use it really isnt going to make a jot of difference when sold. No one is going to stop you because breaching regs is only a legal matter when enforced.
Any house built pre 85 hasn't regs anyhow, there's period property's built on a 12" timber floor foundation with 12" rise and 3" going on the stairs.... these don't compile but are sold daily. 

jimbog

thearchitect said:

I will merely observe that the Building Regulations exist for a purpose somewhat more important than merely inconveniencing property owners, and those who ignore them do so at their own risk.

^^this.
The safety of my children would always be my main consideration as opposed to officials in slippers and dressing gowns jumping out of cupboards

thearchitect

snowcat75 said:

Any house built pre 85 hasn't regs anyhow, there's period property's built on a 12" timber floor foundation with 12" rise and 3" going on the stairs.... these don't compile but are sold daily. 

With respect, that's not quite accurate.

Assuming that you are only referring to England and Wales, building regulation was by way of local authority bylaws until the Building Regulations Act (1965).  In Scotland, Dean of Guilds then County Councils set their own regulations until 1975 when a national system was implemented. There were thus standards in force, albeit not necessarily as you might recognise them today.  The reason why each of the Home Nations adopted national standards was primarily to ensure a consistent approach within each country, and also to recognise increasing funtional expectations.

As a basic principle, laws cannot be implemented retrospectively and hence any building which was consented under the regulations in force at the time of construction has to be taken "as is".  The power of building control authorities  only extend to ensuring that alterations do not cause the building to fail to comply to any greater a degree than it did prior to the current proposals.

This obviously could lead to sub-standard or even dangerous accommodation, but that is dealt with seperately through alternative legislation such as the various UK and devolved Housing Acts. 

The problem with this non-compliance situation is being touched upon quite regularly in the Grenfell inquiry, where fire escape standards fell far below modern standards, and Westiminster may deal with it in some way in due course.

In the meantime, however, the current Building Regulations exist to protect the users of properties insofar as they set down minimum build standards.  People can and do ignore these, particularly for small-scale work where enforcement is unlikely in England, but that in no way detracts from the basic principle of their applicant.  If such a person manages to build something unsound, or with inadequate fire protection, then they do so at their own risk.  To advise them otherwise is unfortunate in the extreme.