New Build lofts - 'very difficult' to convert as opposed to traditional?

AdrianC

Doozergirl said:

It was you said that you couldn't remove the small forest of timber after I'd said that you can.  

Ah, I see the confusion. I didn't mean "They can't be removed AT ALL AT ALL AT ALL". I meant "...without putting something back in to replace that lost strength, because they ain't just cosmetic."... My apologies for the lack of clarity.

Owain_Moneysaver

Another consideration with a new build is there may be a lack of permitted development, or other planning or covenant restrictions, on converting lofts, which would affect windows. Also if you go from 2 to 3 storeys you need a protected exit stair from the attic rooms to the final exit (usually front door) - if your house has an open plan downstairs that may need additional work and result in loss of lounge space. 

jimbog

It seems a lot of time and money has been spent. What will you use it for? You won't be able to use it as a bedroom without building regs

AdrianC

jimbog said:

You won't be able to use it as a bedroom without building regs

Of course you can.

Is somebody from the local council is going to leap out of the airing cupboard at 11pm, clad in hivis, waving a clipboard, as you meander towards the steps with a mug of cocoa and a good book?

No, of course not. They may well be able to make you apply for retrospective BR sign-off, for a short while, but not after that.

You may have issues saying "Yes, that room with a bed in is definitely a bedroom, honest" if and when you come to sell it, if the EA or putative buyers are a bit eyebrow-raisey about paperwork. Nothing a useless indemnity won't sort, of course.

thearchitect

Modern Fink Pattern Trusses such as those in OP's property can either be designed to span over the entire envelope of a building, or to have intermediate supports by way of loadbearing partitions and the like.    The software used by truss manufacturers uses the most efficient sizes of timber required - put plainly, they are the bare minimum required to carry the imposed and dead loads on the roof.  If an element of attic use is anticipated at the time of construction then the timber sizes can be beefed up to accommodate that.

Where later alterations are proposed, these "bare minimum" timber sizes can lead to obvious difficulties.  It is rare for the lower chord or ceiling-level tie to be able to accommodate the required 2.5KN/m2 load.  Spars are, as in the case, in a position which prevents insertion of habitable apartments.  Alterations are therefore required.

Traditionally, that would be done by insertion of additional beams at floor level, either in steel or timber, removal of the spars and repalcement with a traditional oxters (or posts, depending where you are in the UK) and a high level tie or collar.  Rafters may need strengthened, sometimes by simple doubling-up.   Whilst relatively straightforward, it is a very disruptive process.  Some homeowners therefore choose to replace the trusses instead, ideally finding a way to retain lower ceilings in-situ.

Systems like Telebeam seek to simplify this process somewhat by providing a telescopic metal (in this case aluminium) beam which can be fitted either internally only (bearing in mind that the internal leaf of the envelope is loadbearing) or externally from one side.  It is potentially more easily manhandled than a large steel section, but on the other hand may require additional depth.  What it does not do, alas, is change the requirements for the works to the oxters/collars/rafters.  I observe in passing that Telebeam carries a degree of prior certification only for the English and Welsh building regulatory system, and not necessarily the other UK jurisdictions.

In a case such as this, the advice of a chartered structural engineer is essential in order to determine the most appropriate way forward. 

jimbog

AdrianC said:

jimbog said:

You won't be able to use it as a bedroom without building regs

Of course you can.

Is somebody from the local council is going to leap out of the airing cupboard at 11pm, clad in hivis, waving a clipboard, as you meander towards the steps with a mug of cocoa and a good book?

No, of course not. They may well be able to make you apply for retrospective BR sign-off, for a short while, but not after that.

You may have issues saying "Yes, that room with a bed in is definitely a bedroom, honest" if and when you come to sell it, if the EA or putative buyers are a bit eyebrow-raisey about paperwork. Nothing a useless indemnity won't sort, of course.

Nonsense

buel10

Thank you all. Much food for thought!!
Briefly, I did chat informally to the chap from the company that supplied the roof trusses and he said that the specs given are only those from the software he is given and if I were to store heavier things up there or walk up there, it wouldn't collapse. (That doesn't mean that I will, of course, but I am tempted to board the loft now....)

Petriix

There are an enormous number of properties with unofficial loft conversions. The attic rooms are typically not counted as 'bedrooms' on the property listings but they are reasonably desirable and do seem to add value. Some potential buyers are spooked by the lack of regs but most (and most lenders) are satisfied with an indemnity policy. As long as everything is structurally sound and safe you are unlikely to have any issues.

weeg

I'd never seen those telebeams - they seem excellent.
In terms of load, yes, of course you can walk up there. But I have seen houses damaged by excess load in attics, as well as some deeply, deeply stupid 'unofficial' alterations. There is no way on earth I would ever buy a house which hadn't had one signed off. And I'm really pretty sanguine about most things. I am also a full time structural engineer, who specialises in domestic properties. 

AdrianC

jimbog said:

AdrianC said:

jimbog said:

You won't be able to use it as a bedroom without building regs

Of course you can.

Is somebody from the local council is going to leap out of the airing cupboard at 11pm, clad in hivis, waving a clipboard, as you meander towards the steps with a mug of cocoa and a good book?

No, of course not. They may well be able to make you apply for retrospective BR sign-off, for a short while, but not after that.

You may have issues saying "Yes, that room with a bed in is definitely a bedroom, honest" if and when you come to sell it, if the EA or putative buyers are a bit eyebrow-raisey about paperwork. Nothing a useless indemnity won't sort, of course.

Nonsense

Show your working.

Which bit, and why?

Are you saying that the council chap DEFINITELY IS going to get all clipboardy sometime around the shipping forecast?