How can a third party - 'the keeper' be responsible for someone else's alleged contract?

Totum20

Hi, 

First, thanks for the fantastic "Newbies thread", I am following it closely with after receiving an NTK.

Second, the legislation in POFA2012 states that the creditor has the right to claim from the keeper.

I would argue however that a third party, the keeper, has no legal obligation to a contract allegedly entered into by others. I also question how a contract can be allegedly entered into if one party, the driver, is not known to the other party?

Does anyone have thoughts or experience of using this as an appeal?

Umkomaas

The 'legal obligation' is enshrined in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) - the law of this country. Like many laws there are those who disagree with them. Your MP is the starting point to have any law changed. 

Although mob violence managed to condemn the Poll Tax to the history books!

Le_Kirk

If this will be the first appeal, just use the blue text appeal in the NEWBIE sticky first post, send it with no additions, deletions or amendments.  If the driver is not known to the PPC, it is more difficult for them to hold the keeper liable.

Redx

Liability changed due to POFA 2012 , providing the claimant complies with that law (it is not a mandatory law , but optional , so not complying is if more relevance to your argument )

POFA makes the vehicle keeper liable for what that vehicle does , even if the keeper is not the driver , unless the keeper transfers that liability to the actual driver by naming them to the parking company , which is why they ask for driver details in the NTK

Feel free to debate it in court with a judge , thousands already have done so over the last 8 years

nosferatu1001

"I would argue however that a third party, the keeper, has no legal obligation to a contract allegedly entered into by others. I also question how a contract can be allegedly entered into if one party, the driver, is not known to the other party?"
Simple
THe law says you are.
Unless you can stump up £30k for a judicial review, you havent got a hope in hell of challenging this law. 

Totum20

Le_Kirk said:

If this will be the first appeal, just use the blue text appeal in the NEWBIE sticky first post, send it with no additions, deletions or amendments.  If the driver is not known to the PPC, it is more difficult for them to hold the keeper liable.

I am doing this thanks. My only question regarding the text is the relevance to my situation. The NTK says the vehicle was "Present on an access road, without a written permission." No PDT and no references to time periods.

Basically, I believe the only avenue for appeal is questioning their right to be enforcing the area and the justification of the £100 fee. 

I will be following all other advice as best practice to see where it leads out of principle

Ralph-y

which PPC? and where ? please

Ralph

Fruitcake

Totum20 said:

Le_Kirk said:

If this will be the first appeal, just use the blue text appeal in the NEWBIE sticky first post, send it with no additions, deletions or amendments.  If the driver is not known to the PPC, it is more difficult for them to hold the keeper liable.

I am doing this thanks. My only question regarding the text is the relevance to my situation. The NTK says the vehicle was "Present on an access road, without a written permission." No PDT and no references to time periods.

Basically, I believe the only avenue for appeal is questioning their right to be enforcing the area and the justification of the £100 fee. 

I will be following all other advice as best practice to see where it leads out of principle

There will probably be other avenues, boulevards, main roads, and possibly even a few side streets.

Inadequate signage and NTK PoFA failures to name but two. Have you checked that the NTK is in fact PoFA compliant in both wording and timeline in order to hold a keeper liable.

Totum20

Ralph-y said:

which PPC? and where ? please

Ralph

Thanks for asking

Alliance Parking. Swansea. I believe alliance have a contract with an, as yet, elusive landowner for a marked bay car park, but apparently the PCN was issued on an access road to the car park that until earlier this year had no signage on it.

Fruitcake

Totum20 said:

Ralph-y said:

which PPC? and where ? please

Ralph

Thanks for asking

Alliance Parking. Swansea. I believe alliance have a contract with an, as yet, elusive landowner for a marked bay car park, but apparently the PCN was issued on an access road to the car park that until earlier this year had no signage on it.

If you tell us the location, someone here may have information about it.

When did the signage change? How long afterwards did the alleged event take place? The scammers should allow a bedding in period after any change before PCNs are issued.

Umkomaas

Is it the Copper Quarter?  Old Millennium Security stomping ground. Alliance have subsumed all their contracts. If it is the CQ, do some searches on the forum which might turn up who the landowner is.