One small victory against incompetent companies and their debt collection agencies?

wwdits

I had a utility bill that was collected via direct debit. When I moved I set up a new account with a different company and thought no more of it. I am still getting all of my post and emails. However it appears that they did not claim the final payment that was due (about £40), and they never asked me for this.
Six month's later, out of the blue, it seems they woke up and just turned the debt over to a debt collection agency and they sent me an incredibly rude letter demanding payment immediately and threatening me with court. I complained to the utility company about this but they have just ignored my emails and letters. Its not the money, I can easily afford that, its the fact that they ignore me and have not apologised for their mistake.
As soon as I checked I owed the money I paid the bill directly into the company's published bank account, but added a few pennies to the amount and didn't use my account reference number. Meanwhile the debt collectors and their (in house) solicitors are still sending me lots of threatening letters, which I'm quite enjoying, they ignore mine so I will ignore their agents, meanwhile it must be costing them time and cash, and anyway Royal Mail needs the business.
As soon as I get a notice from the County Court I will of course respond with all the details and the fact it was paid long ago. Can anyone see a problem with this? Any other bright ideas of ways to wind them up? Or am I just a sad git that should get a life?

DoaM

Yes.

#1 Paying without using any reference means that the amount cannot be assigned anywhere, so will not be deemed as payment against your account. This was a foolish thing to do as they now have your money and your ability to get it back is almost non-existent. It will also be difficult for them to now assign it to your account - the joke is Computer Says No for a reason.
#2 Whilst ignoring debt collectors (without a court order) is perfectly acceptable, the logical and reasonable thing to do would be to write to them to inform them that the debt is disputed and to refer it back to their client. If you let debt recovery action escalate then, if this went to court, it is possible that you might win the claim but the judge may award costs to the other side due to unreasonable behaviour.

And finally - your thread title is wrong - you haven't won anything yet so how can you claim any form of victory?

shaun_from_Africa

wwdits said:

As soon as I checked I owed the money I paid the bill directly into the company's published bank account, but added a few pennies to the amount and didn't use my account reference number. 

Why did you do that?
As it stands, you haven't paid the bill that was owing. You have simply given money to the utility company, money that they couldn't possibly have any idea which account it was to be credited to and if the matter does get to court, this action may well favour the energy company more than it would help you as it looks like you deliberately attempted to make sure that the money couldn't be added to your account. 

wwdits

Thanks DoaM. There was a question mark at the end of the thread title because it was a question, I'm not declaring victory, Im asking for an opinion. Of course paying without a reference makes reconciliation harder, that was the point, but I don't see how that causes a problem: I paid them, what their computer systems do is neither here nor there. As for #2 Do you know of any circumstances that this could go to court as you suggest, without my having an opportunity to prove the debt is already paid? Thanks for your opinion!

eddddy

wwdits said:

As soon as I checked I owed the money I paid the bill directly into the company's published bank account, but added a few pennies to the amount and didn't use my account reference number. 

Did you do that just to be annoying?

If so, if this does end up in court - bear in mind that courts aren't stupid.  They're likely to see that you did that to waste the company's time, and waste the court's time. In those circumstances, I suspect that the court would order you to pay the company's costs and the court's costs for wasting their time.

Also, is the utility company reporting on your account to the Credit Reference Agencies? If so, your credit reports will now show a massively overdue payment - which won't look good if you need a credit check from another utility company etc.

wwdits

eddddy said:

wwdits said:

As soon as I checked I owed the money I paid the bill directly into the company's published bank account, but added a few pennies to the amount and didn't use my account reference number. 

Did you do that just to be annoying?

If so, if this does end up in court - bear in mind that courts aren't stupid.  They're likely to see that you did that to waste the company's time, and waste the court's time. In those circumstances, I suspect that the court would order you to pay the company's costs and the court's costs for wasting their time.

Also, is the utility company reporting on your account to the Credit Reference Agencies? If so, your credit reports will now show a massively overdue payment - which won't look good if you need a credit check from another utility company etc.

Yes that's exactly why I did it. Because they won't respond and meanwhile they are trying to bully me, the least I can do is make it costly for them. But I am interested in your suggestion "if this ends up in court", which a number of other replies have also included. Can you tell me any basis on which that could happen? Thanks for the comment edddy!

shaun_from_Africa

wwdits said:

As for #2 Do you know of any circumstances that this could go to court as you suggest, without my having an opportunity to prove the debt is already paid? Thanks for your opinion!

Any person or company has the legal right to take legal action against another person but whether they will for the original debt of £40 is unlikely.
However, the money now owing may well be greatly in excess of £40 due to fees having been added on for the solicitor's and debt collector's fees.

wwdits said:
Of course paying without a reference makes reconciliation harder, that was the point, but I don't see how that causes a problem: I paid them, what their computer systems do is neither here nor there

Paying money into an account whilst attempting to ensure that the company finds it hard, if not impossible for them to reconcile the payment isn't paying a bill. It is simply giving money to someone and as it stands, all you can prove is that you made a payment, not that you made a payment to settle the outstanding debt.
If your payment showed your account number as a reference then you would have a defence but at the moment, you have nothing.

As both myself and DoaM think, you have acted unreasonably by taking the course of action that you chose to take, something that could well bite you in the ar5e should it get to court.

LABMAN

No, it's not a victory. What you have done is make yourself look extremely foolish.

wwdits

shaun_from_Africa said:

wwdits said:

As for #2 Do you know of any circumstances that this could go to court as you suggest, without my having an opportunity to prove the debt is already paid? Thanks for your opinion!

Any person or company has the legal right to take legal action against another person but whether they will for the original debt of £40 is unlikely.
However, the money now owing may well be greatly in excess of £40 due to fees having been added on for the solicitor's and debt collector's fees.

Thanks Shaun. I don't know much about the law here, so very grateful for your guidance, but wouldn't I have to be taken to court for any costs that they have incurred so they can collect those excess fees? And if so how is it going to get to court given that the original claim has already been paid, even if they had to go searching for it? 

shaun_from_Africa

wwdits said:

I had a utility bill that was collected via direct debit. When I moved I set up a new account with a different company and thought no more of it. I am still getting all of my post and emails. However it appears that they did not claim the final payment that was due (about £40), and they never asked me for this.
Six month's later, out of the blue, it seems they woke up and just turned the debt over to a debt collection agency and they sent me an incredibly rude letter demanding payment immediately and threatening me with court. I complained to the utility company about this but they have just ignored my emails and letters. Its not the money, I can easily afford that, its the fact that they ignore me and have not apologised for their mistake.
As soon as I checked I owed the money I paid the bill directly into the company's published bank account, but added a few pennies to the amount and didn't use my account reference number. Meanwhile the debt collectors and their (in house) solicitors are still sending me lots of threatening letters, which I'm quite enjoying, they ignore mine so I will ignore their agents, meanwhile it must be costing them time and cash, and anyway Royal Mail needs the business.
As soon as I get a notice from the County Court I will of course respond with all the details and the fact it was paid long ago. Can anyone see a problem with this? Any other bright ideas of ways to wind them up? Or am I just a sad git that should get a life?

Just in case!

DoaM

wwdits said:

shaun_from_Africa said:

wwdits said:

As for #2 Do you know of any circumstances that this could go to court as you suggest, without my having an opportunity to prove the debt is already paid? Thanks for your opinion!

Any person or company has the legal right to take legal action against another person but whether they will for the original debt of £40 is unlikely.
However, the money now owing may well be greatly in excess of £40 due to fees having been added on for the solicitor's and debt collector's fees.

Thanks Shaun. I don't know much about the law here, so very grateful for your guidance, but wouldn't I have to be taken to court for any costs that they have incurred so they can collect those excess fees? And if so how is it going to get to court given that the original claim has already been paid, even if they had to go searching for it? 

No it hasn't! That's the whole point. All you've done is transfer money to another party - you haven't paid the bill. 🙄