One small victory against incompetent companies and their debt collection agencies?

shaun_from_Africa

wwdits said:

And if so how is it going to get to court given that the original claim has already been paid, even if they had to go searching for it? 

You've got to get this idea out of your head.
The original bill has not been paid. You tried to be smart but have simply made an untraceable voluntary payment into the bank account of the utility company.

Look at it another way.
Suppose that you had an outstanding bill with a plumber who carried out some work for you and to pay this bill, you stuck some money in an envelope (and not even the exact amount owed) and posted this to them with a service that provided proof of delivery.
You would be able to prove that the money was delivered but the plumber would be able to show that it was impossible for them to know where the money came from.
This is basically what you have done.

wwdits

DoaM said:

No it hasn't! That's the whole point. All you've done is transfer money to another party - you haven't paid the bill. 🙄

Another take would be that the money is in their account, so I have paid the bill, they just haven't reconciled it! Still if you know the rules on this please point me in the right direction. Thanks DoaM!

eddddy

wwdits said:

I don't know much about the law here, so very grateful for your guidance, but wouldn't I have to be taken to court for any costs that they have incurred so they can collect those excess fees? And if so how is it going to get to court given that the original claim has already been paid, even if they had to go searching for it? 

The legal basis for taking you to court would be 'breach of contract'.

The contract you had with the utility company would have had terms including that you pay their bills, and pay them in one of the specified ways. One of the specified ways would be by bank transfer using the correct reference.

So, as others have said, as far as the contract is concerned - you haven't yet paid the bill.

wwdits

LABMAN said:

No, it's not a victory. What you have done is make yourself look extremely foolish.

How so? 

shaun_from_Africa

wwdits said:

DoaM said:

No it hasn't! That's the whole point. All you've done is transfer money to another party - you haven't paid the bill. 🙄

Another take would be that the money is in their account, so I have paid the bill, they just haven't reconciled it! Still if you know the rules on this please point me in the right direction. 

Which energy company is it?
Here's just a few that I looked at:
British Gas.

Pay by online banking

1. Go to your online banking
2. Use your Customer Reference Number as the reference
3. Give them our details:

Shell energy

To pay by bank transfer you'll need our bank details: 

• Bank: Barclays 
• Sort code: 20-00-00 
• Account number: 53764680 
• Payee: Shell Energy Retail Limited 
• Reference: Your Shell Energy account number

EDF energy

Quote our sort code 40-05-30 and our bank account number 13845095 (these are different from those shown on the payment slip),
and your EDF Energy account number.

SSE

Pay us directly from your bank account using your bank's phone or Internet banking service. Make sure to enter your gas or electricity account number as the payment reference, depending on which account the payment is for.

So you can attempt to spin it as much as you like but it's a simple fact. If you have not followed the correct procedure for making a bank payment, you have not paid the bill.

wwdits

shaun_from_Africa said:

Here's just a few that I looked at:
British Gas.
So you can attempt to spin it as much as you like but it's a simple fact. If you have not followed the correct procedure for making a bank payment, you have not paid the bill.

Thanks for that Shaun. I agreed to and was paying by direct debit in my contract - they were the ones that cancelled it and failed to take the payment. I guess my question comes down to this: if the money has been paid but not reconciled for whatever reason then do they have any basis to claim it hasn't been paid? If that were the case there are thousands of unreconciled payments many companies deal with every day. Does this mean those companies can take legal action against people simply because they have not followed their procedures? edddy had a good pointer about breach of contract, which is where you are also going, but in that case there would be a counter claim that they failed to take the money by direct debit, which is what was actually stipulated in the contract. I think this is the only potential issue that I could face, so thanks for your thoughts on this.

LABMAN

wwdits said:

LABMAN said:

No, it's not a victory. What you have done is make yourself look extremely foolish.

How so? 

When it ends up in  COURT and you have to answer honestly why you deliberately paid more and deliberately made the payment anonymously what are you going to say? Guess who is going to be paying way more than £40?

wwdits

LABMAN said:

wwdits said:

LABMAN said:

No, it's not a victory. What you have done is make yourself look extremely foolish.

How so? 

When it ends up in  COURT and you have to answer honestly why you deliberately paid more and deliberately made the payment anonymously what are you going to say? Guess who is going to be paying way more than £40?

Thanks for your input LABMAN. I am going to say that they ignored my letters, failed to collect the money, waited 6 months to find their mistake and then sent some bullies to collect it. But the question was how will it end up in court? Edddy and shaun have both suggested breach of contract which I guess is a small possibility. Do you have any other plausible basis for suggesting I could be taken to court?

pinkshoes

So you moved house yet didn't ask for a final bill. (your mistake)

They then sent you a bill 6 months later once they'd tracked you down (fair enough)

You then paid the bill, but paid the wrong amount (your mistake) with no reference (your mistake) so that they cannot match it to an outstanding amount, nor can they reference it to you.

So if it does got to court, I would imagine that given you have clearly been negligent on 3 accounts, then although you have paid the bill, there is a strong possibility that all their costs would be awarded against you.

I really don't see what you are trying to gain from what was entirely your fault. Sounds like you are trying to bully them.

shaun_from_Africa

pinkshoes said:

You then paid the bill, but paid the wrong amount (your mistake) with no reference (your mistake) so that they cannot match it to an outstanding amount, nor can they reference it to you.

It wasn't even a mistake.
The OP deliberately paid the wrong amount and left out their customer reference number so as to make it hard for the energy company to deal with

wwdits said:

Of course paying without a reference makes reconciliation harder, that was the point, but I don't see how that causes a problem: I paid them, what their computer systems do is neither here nor there.

wwdits said:

eddddy said:

wwdits said:

As soon as I checked I owed the money I paid the bill directly into the company's published bank account, but added a few pennies to the amount and didn't use my account reference number. 

Did you do that just to be annoying?

Yes that's exactly why I did it.

They have tried to be smart but if it does go to court, I'm sure that a judge won't look favourably on their actions.