Received a N1SDT Form from County Court Business Centre - for parking at my own home on private land

mattp87

nosferatu1001 said:

Indeed. But the point Im making i that if you admit to being the driver here, you may as well do so in the defence. Makes writing the WS a lot easier on you, you can directly talk about it, etc .
Make a choice.

I have said that the defendant is the owner of the vehicle and was abroad at the time but the particulars of the claim offer little to shed light on the alleged breach.

Is there any reason based on what I have put to NOT submit those paragraphs?

Redx

Owning the vehicle or not is irrelevant , ownership is not registered anywhere !!

The entities are registered keeper , and driver or drivers , or keeper or keepers

Barclays Bank could be the owner , or a 5 year old child , all irrelevant to the case

mattp87

Redx said:

Owning the vehicle or not is irrelevant , ownership is not registered anywhere !!

The entities are registered keeper , and driver or drivers , or keeper or keepers

Barclays Bank could be the owner , or a 5 year old child , all irrelevant to the case

OK, i have changed this now to reflect myself as the Keeper. 

nosferatu1001

So thats more confusing. 
You need to go back and edit, and ask those that quoted toedit, because the drivers identity has been disclosed. If you're defending as keeper it is stupid to reveal the drivers identity. Sorry if that seems harsh, but it is. POFA2012 only applies when dealing with a keeper, a driver doesnt get any assistance. 

mattp87

nosferatu1001 said:

So thats more confusing. 
You need to go back and edit, and ask those that quoted toedit, because the drivers identity has been disclosed. If you're defending as keeper it is stupid to reveal the drivers identity. Sorry if that seems harsh, but it is. POFA2012 only applies when dealing with a keeper, a driver doesnt get any assistance. 

Sorry, I'm finding this confusing.
Which one am I then? 
To put this simply, I was genuinely abroad at the time. It's my car, its my space, my house.
What do I put myself as?
When I stand in the court room, I am the man who has to defend his parking ticket charge. I am the owner/keeper and the last driver of the car. My pass has slid down off the window, the first time in 11 years! 
Regardless of that point, what do you suggest I put? Surely I am the keeper? 

Redx

Agreed , which was partly why I replied earlier , apart from not wishing to commit perjury , decide if you are defending as an aggrieved keeper that wasn't or may have not been the driver but who is the legal owner of the space or has the legal right to park their own vehicles unfettered by parking companies or by third party rules , so the right to peaceful enjoyment , who was abroad at the time anyway and POFA protects a keeper. You may or may not have been the driver , that is unclear after all this time and the parking company do not know who was driving anyway , no evidence of the driver and you are unclear on this point and the claimant is put to strict proof.

Or defending as a driver and and as keeper who is aggrieved at receiving parking charge notices for parking in his or her own space at their own residence and has the legal documents to prove it , so getting on their high horse about it , upset that their right to peaceful enjoyment and to park on land they own or lease has been abused by a third party company who has no legal right to operate on this land. This option is not protected under POFA but you believe your land rights have been violated

Bear in mind you may not need to display the permit , other than as a convenience to assist the parking company , this permit idea is a separate issue that you either have or have not agreed to

Umkomaas

This case is bouncing down the road of no keeper liability, yet we have seen absolutely no evidence that the Notice to Keeper was in any way deficient. So few of them are deficient these days, that 'no keeper liability' technical argument should only be used where the NtK is total pants. 

OP - can you scan a redacted copy of the first letter you received from DE (probably headed 'Notice to Keeper'). Don't confuse it with any 'Reminder' letter.  Make sure that all dates shown on the NtK are not scrubbed out - they might be important to your case. 

mattp87

Redx said:

Agreed , which was partly why I replied earlier , apart from not wishing to commit perjury , decide if you are defending as an aggrieved keeper that wasn't or may have not been the driver but who is the legal owner of the space or has the legal right to park their own vehicles unfettered by parking companies or by third party rules , so the right to peaceful enjoyment , who was abroad at the time anyway and POFA protects a keeper. You may or may not have been the driver , that is unclear after all this time and the parking company do not know who was driving anyway , no evidence of the driver and you are unclear on this point and the claimant is put to strict proof.

Or defending as a driver and and as keeper who is aggrieved at receiving parking charge notices for parking in his or her own space at their own residence and has the legal documents to prove it , so getting on their high horse about it , upset that their right to peaceful enjoyment and to park on land they own or lease has been abused by a third party company who has no legal right to operate on this land. This option is not protected under POFA but you believe your land rights have been violated

Bear in mind you may not need to display the permit , other than as a convenience to assist the parking company , this permit idea is a separate issue that you either have or have not agreed to

I'd love to put that in section 17/18!

Redx

Agreed , I have seen Bargepole and coupon mad state that a judge will take more notice of an aggrieved driver who was a first person witness in cases like these , than somebody hiding behind POFA and brings nothing to the table

Redx

mattp87 said:

Redx said:

Agreed , which was partly why I replied earlier , apart from not wishing to commit perjury , decide if you are defending as an aggrieved keeper that wasn't or may have not been the driver but who is the legal owner of the space or has the legal right to park their own vehicles unfettered by parking companies or by third party rules , so the right to peaceful enjoyment , who was abroad at the time anyway and POFA protects a keeper. You may or may not have been the driver , that is unclear after all this time and the parking company do not know who was driving anyway , no evidence of the driver and you are unclear on this point and the claimant is put to strict proof.

Or defending as a driver and and as keeper who is aggrieved at receiving parking charge notices for parking in his or her own space at their own residence and has the legal documents to prove it , so getting on their high horse about it , upset that their right to peaceful enjoyment and to park on land they own or lease has been abused by a third party company who has no legal right to operate on this land. This option is not protected under POFA but you believe your land rights have been violated

Bear in mind you may not need to display the permit , other than as a convenience to assist the parking company , this permit idea is a separate issue that you either have or have not agreed to

I'd love to put that in section 17/18!

Then do what Umkomaas said and check if the NTK is compliant with POFA

If it is , defend on the basis I gave you and lose any POFA arguments , adapting what I said to suit the facts