Neon Reef - any views?

Gerry1

Neon Reef generally seem to launch new variable tariffs rather than have one variable tariff which is increased.

PennineAcute

I joned NR on 2 June on their variable tariff.  On the same day, I received the email notification of a price increase, so I moved and joined Symbio on 20 June.  I have just receieved what should be my final statement from NR, but it says nothing about being a final statement.  I have just had to fire off an email asking why, and when will my £19.98 credit be refunded.

----  Edit

I got an immediate rosponse informing me that the statement was my final statement, with a link for me to complete a mandate so they could refund me me through BACS.

The link was actually a link to their additional payments info page https://www.neonreef.co.uk/additional-payments/ , which is of no use to me.  I have kept my direct debit open with them, so they have the details to refund me. 

I have just fired off another email - we will see what they say.

yelias

goatfaced said:

I'm confused. I'm on marine which is variable. The comparison is now showing marine v4 which costs much more, but I appear to be billed at the marine rates I signed up to originally. How come they haven't raised my rate? Do they fix it for 6 months maybe? I'm looking at getting an electric car ... I wish they hadn't objected when I tried to switch to a decent fixed rate which has now gone. I only owed them a small amount. Took forever to credit my extra payment and then they reduced my next DD accordingly, I think they want me to be in debt!

Were you previously advised in writing that your tariff was increasing? They have to provide at least 30 days notice of any increase.

The variable tariff currently on offer to new applicants is now Marine v4. But that doesn't necessarily imply your existing variable tariff has changed. In fact, it was only just over a month ago that peopel were posting in this thread that they had been told their Aqua tariff (which was variable) was being discontinued. That particular tariff has not been available for many months; in fact I think it was the first tariff they ever launched.

Why did the supplier object to you changing to a fixed tariff when you asked? At least that would have meant you would have been with them for another 12 months - time to address any debt you may have been in but were unable to settle.

How much debt were you in at the time? I can't remember exactly when they launched their Marine tariff, but probably within the last 6-8 months. if you were looking at a fixed rate that you describe as being "decent" at the time, that must have been a couple of months back. Difficult to imagine you were in much debt in say 6 months if you were paying the agreed monthly payment (and had not massively underestimated your EAC on application; something I'm sure NR,who are run by the same people as the more established Utility Point, would have allowed if it varied from your previous actual usage).

You say you "only owed them a small amount. Took forever to credit my extra payment...", in which case why did you allow it to become a debt in the first place???
Feedback I have seen suggests NR take a mximum of 5 working days to apply any credit to the customers account.

Whatever the reason for the objection, it seems NR did you a huge favour. Their fixed rates have a £36 early exit fee attached, and you will be wanting to switch supplier if you plan to now start recharghing your electric car.

yelias

PennineAcute said:

I joned NR on 2 June on their variable tariff.  On the same day, I received the email notification of a price increase, so I moved and joined Symbio on 20 June.  I have just receieved what should be my final statement from NR, but it says nothing about being a final statement.  I have just had to fire off an email asking why, and when will my £19.98 credit be refunded.

----  Edit

I got an immediate rosponse informing me that the statement was my final statement, with a link for me to complete a mandate so they could refund me me through BACS.

The link was actually a link to their additional payments info page https://www.neonreef.co.uk/additional-payments/ , which is of no use to me.  I have kept my direct debit open with them, so they have the details to refund me. 

I have just fired off another email - we will see what they say.

This shouldn't to too difficult to resolve.

If, as you say, the direct debit is still open, then the supplier usually refunds using this.

If, as the supplier has indicated, they wish to refund you via BACS, then they just need your bank account number, sort code (and possibly the account name nowadays). You would have provided them all this info when you applied to join NR.

Just email it to them again if that's what they need. Then they have 10 working days from today (the day you were supplied the final bill) else they'll owe you another £30 on top of the almost £20 they agree they owe you.

PennineAcute

yelias said:

This shouldn't to too difficult to resolve.

If, as you say, the direct debit is still open, then the supplier usually refunds using this.

If, as the supplier has indicated, they wish to refund you via BACS, then they just need your bank account number, sort code (and possibly the account name nowadays). You would have provided them all this info when you applied to join NR.

Just email it to them again if that's what they need. Then they have 10 working days from today (the day you were supplied the final bill) else they'll owe you another £30 on top of the almost £20 they agree they owe you.

Thanks for this.  I have just sent them an email with my banking details.

Much appreciated.

goatfaced

yelias said:

goatfaced said:

I'm confused. I'm on marine which is variable. The comparison is now showing marine v4 which costs much more, but I appear to be billed at the marine rates I signed up to originally. How come they haven't raised my rate? Do they fix it for 6 months maybe? I'm looking at getting an electric car ... I wish they hadn't objected when I tried to switch to a decent fixed rate which has now gone. I only owed them a small amount. Took forever to credit my extra payment and then they reduced my next DD accordingly, I think they want me to be in debt!

Were you previously advised in writing that your tariff was increasing? They have to provide at least 30 days notice of any increase.

The variable tariff currently on offer to new applicants is now Marine v4. But that doesn't necessarily imply your existing variable tariff has changed. In fact, it was only just over a month ago that peopel were posting in this thread that they had been told their Aqua tariff (which was variable) was being discontinued. That particular tariff has not been available for many months; in fact I think it was the first tariff they ever launched.

Why did the supplier object to you changing to a fixed tariff when you asked? At least that would have meant you would have been with them for another 12 months - time to address any debt you may have been in but were unable to settle.

How much debt were you in at the time? I can't remember exactly when they launched their Marine tariff, but probably within the last 6-8 months. if you were looking at a fixed rate that you describe as being "decent" at the time, that must have been a couple of months back. Difficult to imagine you were in much debt in say 6 months if you were paying the agreed monthly payment (and had not massively underestimated your EAC on application; something I'm sure NR,who are run by the same people as the more established Utility Point, would have allowed if it varied from your previous actual usage).

You say you "only owed them a small amount. Took forever to credit my extra payment...", in which case why did you allow it to become a debt in the first place???
Feedback I have seen suggests NR take a mximum of 5 working days to apply any credit to the customers account.

Whatever the reason for the objection, it seems NR did you a huge favour. Their fixed rates have a £36 early exit fee attached, and you will be wanting to switch supplier if you plan to now start recharghing your electric car.

Hi, it was pfp fixed I tried to switch to. They probably wouldn't have objected of I'd switched to their own fix. I owed a few pounds because there are two people working from home now. I can't see an option to increase my direct debit and they reduced mine the following month by the amount of paid in additional payment, so I can't prevent debt building up that way. Pfp said they would try again but they only tried for 24 hours iirc. So my credit hadn't gone on in time. Symbio is my cheapest option now. 

yelias

goatfaced said:

yelias said:

goatfaced said:

I'm confused. I'm on marine which is variable. The comparison is now showing marine v4 which costs much more, but I appear to be billed at the marine rates I signed up to originally. How come they haven't raised my rate? Do they fix it for 6 months maybe? I'm looking at getting an electric car ... I wish they hadn't objected when I tried to switch to a decent fixed rate which has now gone. I only owed them a small amount. Took forever to credit my extra payment and then they reduced my next DD accordingly, I think they want me to be in debt!

Were you previously advised in writing that your tariff was increasing? They have to provide at least 30 days notice of any increase.

The variable tariff currently on offer to new applicants is now Marine v4. But that doesn't necessarily imply your existing variable tariff has changed. In fact, it was only just over a month ago that peopel were posting in this thread that they had been told their Aqua tariff (which was variable) was being discontinued. That particular tariff has not been available for many months; in fact I think it was the first tariff they ever launched.

Why did the supplier object to you changing to a fixed tariff when you asked? At least that would have meant you would have been with them for another 12 months - time to address any debt you may have been in but were unable to settle.

How much debt were you in at the time? I can't remember exactly when they launched their Marine tariff, but probably within the last 6-8 months. if you were looking at a fixed rate that you describe as being "decent" at the time, that must have been a couple of months back. Difficult to imagine you were in much debt in say 6 months if you were paying the agreed monthly payment (and had not massively underestimated your EAC on application; something I'm sure NR,who are run by the same people as the more established Utility Point, would have allowed if it varied from your previous actual usage).

You say you "only owed them a small amount. Took forever to credit my extra payment...", in which case why did you allow it to become a debt in the first place???
Feedback I have seen suggests NR take a mximum of 5 working days to apply any credit to the customers account.

Whatever the reason for the objection, it seems NR did you a huge favour. Their fixed rates have a £36 early exit fee attached, and you will be wanting to switch supplier if you plan to now start recharghing your electric car.

Hi, it was pfp fixed I tried to switch to. They probably wouldn't have objected of I'd switched to their own fix. I owed a few pounds because there are two people working from home now. I can't see an option to increase my direct debit and they reduced mine the following month by the amount of paid in additional payment, so I can't prevent debt building up that way. Pfp said they would try again but they only tried for 24 hours iirc. So my credit hadn't gone on in time. Symbio is my cheapest option now. 

I'm sorry. I totally misinterpreted your earlier post. I thought you meant you were attempting to transfer from a varible tariff with NR to their fixed tariff, whereas now I understand that you were actually attempting to switch supplier.

Whilst it is true that if you are in debt with your supplier to any amount with a credit meter, then that supplier certainly has the right to object to you switching away, I'm still not fully understanding how that would apply in your case.

First of all, for anyone that is truly in debt with NR, or just wishes to make an additional payment on account, they can find details of Neon Reef bank account in the link provided above by PennineAcute.

Under the terms of your agreement with NR, you agree to pay them monthly in advance by direct debit. This is initially set at 1/12th of the annual cost based upon the EAC you gave on application and your tariff rate. They take the first collection on or about the first day of supply, and then each further collection on the same day of each month thereafter, or the first available banking day thereafter where the date falls on a non-banking day, such as a weekend.

It is also true that under the terms you agreed with NR that the account must also remain in credit at all times.

However, it is clear from posts made on this site that NR are not too stringent on enforcing this term. Indeed, if you look at the link provided by PennineAcute I referred to, you will see a sample statement that shows an account in debit.

In practice, whilst the statement may indicate an account in a small debit, the account probably remains in credit for most customers for the following reason.
The statement is produced at the end of the billing period to which it relates. It usually takes about 5 days for NR to produce the statement, by which time the next monthly DD collection is usually already credited to the account, although this is not shown on the statement as it is credited after the billing period the statement refers to.

So the account can only be in actual debit if you have failed to pay a monthly DD or the debit on the account is greater than the following monthly payment made.

This doesn't sound the case with how you have explained things here.

More importantly, there is a distinct difference between having an account in debit and being in debt to your supplier. You will see I have used both terms above, and I have done this quite specifically.

A debt is legally only considered a debt if it remains unpaid 28 days after it has been formally demanded.

Did you ever receive a formal demand (e.g. a bill) for the amount NR were claliming was a debt owed and therefore the reason they were using to block your transfer? From my reading of your posts that was not the case.

Also remember a statement is not a bill. Indeed, if you look at your statements they probably say "Remember: As you are making regular direct debit payments this statement is for information only and does not require payment"
That clause is even included in the sample statement shown in the link given by PennineAcute.

It's actually very rare for a person to be in debt to their energy supplier where they are making regular monthly payments by direct debit to their supplier. That is because the supplier is obligated to regularly review your monthly payments to ensure they are appropriate for settling the account, and if not to revise such monthly payment (after appropriate notice).

If your supplier has not complied with their obligations, or worse still, have unlawfully blocked your switch application claiming you were in debt when you were not and even specically stating "this statement is for information only and does not require payment", then I would be inclined to make a formal complaint.

Calculate the anticipated loss you have incurred due to any unlawful blocking of your switch application, show this calculation to the supplier, and claim this loss as compensation. If the supplier fails to compensate you satisfactorily, then ask the ombudsman to intervene.

yelias

Sorry, one other thing I forgot to address earlier.

You said " I can't see an option to increase my direct debit and they reduced mine the following month by the amount of paid in additional payment, so I can't prevent debt building up that way."

Were you notified in advance that a reduced amount was going to be collected by DD? Suppliers may only collect via the DD scheme the amount they have advised you of in advance. I'm not sure what notice period Neon Reef make you agree to, but the default is 10 working days.

If they didn't notify you in advance, I would add that to the complaint.
You'd also be at liberty to recall the short payment via your bank under the DD guarantee if it differs from that notified.

If you were notified in advance, I would expect such notification to include not only the revised payment details but also:
1. A brief explanation of why the payment iss being revised
2. How to contact the supplier if you wish to raise an objection to the revision.

Alternatively, contact details for Neon Reef are available here:
https://www.neonreef.co.uk/contact/

Btw, I am led to believe Neon Reef use a separate, third party collection agency to collect the Direct Debits on their behalf. Therefore, even if NR wanted to act in breach of the DD scheme rules, the collection agency would not normally allow them to.

Njonezz

Please please stay away from this company. I do not know where they got a licence to sell energy but the customer service and complaints dept are a waste of time. You cannot contact them via phone, they reply to emails when it suits. They don't collect debit debits, then claim its your fault when you provide proof otherwise. They will put their prices up and then stop you moving to another supplier by objecting to the move, so the move will fail. When they do respond they'll apologise but then file an objection to you moving suppliers again, and then no longer respond. Please find yourself a more honest and reliable supplier. I'm currently in dispute and raised complaints via ofgem and the ombudsman but Neon Reedlf still do not respond. Be forewarned!! 

Bacman

There had been plenty of warnings from people in the past too. Problem is no electricity company seems to consistently outshine like in other markets for some reason.