Electric cars, VED and would you change yet ?

almillar

Mgman1965 said:

It also came up that in cold weather, range can drop considerably when using battery powered heating and demisting and lights a lot more.

It will also mean effectively the end of towing and caravanning, again due to range reduction and many are not type approved for towing.

The reduction in range is not due to running those extras, which are tiny to run compared to moving the vehicle, it's due to the chemistry of the batteries simply not working as well at low temperatures. Li-Ion batteries like to be around 20deg C, just like us. I reckon you go about two thirds as far in winter vs summer, in the UK.

Towing - absolutely no reason why EVs can't tow. The current ones don't because they haven't bothered with getting type approval, or maybe there's some structures in the way. That's an engineering compromise that will go away if manufacturers actually see a market for towing. It will of course affect range. It's just not a priority yet.

The Mini has i3 stuff underneath. They market it as a city car which doesn't need a huge range, and 90 is a conservative range estimate for it, I reckon it'll do that in the winter. 3.5m/kWh should be achievable. You can have more range, but it'll mean more weight and bigger pack to carry around - isn't the Mini big enough already?! See also that Honda thing.

Goudy said:

Ok, most owners might average less per day, I certainly do 4 or 5 days of the week but the other 2 would see me have to charge it 3 or 4 times a day. Two of those might be over night, but the other 4 to 6 is going to eat into my time and on a long trip (with a bit of range/charge point location anxiety) it could easily turn into a bad weekend.  

Hydrogen might be the answer, it's abundant, it's the most common element in the universe, trouble is it's really sticky so tends to be stuck to something else. Splitting it off at the moment requires a great deal of effort in the form of energy.
At present it's performed by either a thermochemical or electrolytic processes, both names give the game away, electro and thermo. Something needs to generate the electricity or the heat to process the stuff. both of course have their own emissions problems and problems with energy balance doesn't bear well at the moment (more energy to process that you get/make out of it)

There is a lot of work going into different processing techniques, particularly photoelectrochemical and photobiological which use solar energy. It's early yet but the hope is to be able to process with clean free energy if they can scale up these processes.

We might be at the VHS - Betamax moment of car production.

 

With your driving pattern, which I would suggest is not typical, a city car is not for you. A Mini is not for you, petrol, diesel or electric.

I really don't know why people are still talking about hydrogen being the future *of cars* when electric cars are already here. The only problem they solve is that you get to pump something into a car. It takes longer than petrol, and is shorter than electric. Electric cars are charging faster all the time, and you can charge them whilst doing other things, like sleeping in your home, or shopping. The only time you'll be waiting is on long trips away from home, and it'll be half an hour, when a coffee break is often welcome. Doesn't quite suit everyone, but suits so many people if they can get out of the notion than filling a car is the work of seconds, and charging an EV involves standing around waiting for hours. Even petrol companies are installing EV chargers and not hydrogen!! Electric VS hydrogen isn't VHS vs Betamax. Hydrogen has never got to the dizzying heights of either of those formats.

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

There's no way I can afford an electric car, at present, and it's doubtful that I'd ever have the disposable income necessary to get something like a Tesla.  One has to account, also, for the fact that residual values will stay strong for a while and then fall off a cliff when the cars hit ten years old and the batteries fail.  This affects hybrid cars too; most of the first generation of Priuses, Honda Insights and IMA Civics have been scrapped as the cost of replacing the batteries exceeds the vehicle's value.  Owing to this, the electric car won't go on to have the 'second life' that a petrol one does.  We'll end up with two tier motoring: the middle classes will have electric cars that they run for a short time and then scrap; the working classes will have to stick to petrol and diesel, no doubt making increasingly desperate attempts to keep old stock rolling.  Back to the bad old days, in other words, if anyone remembers the recession conditions of the 1990s and roads full of old bangers running on a wing and a prayer.

Some big claims in here! Batteries don't just fail after 10 years. When you're talking about a Prius, for example, you're talking about lead acid batteries, not Lithium Ion ones. Since the first Leaf, battery management has got a lot better, and there are EVs on the road right now, in use, that have done 100k+ miles without anyone touching the batteries. If cells do fail, they can be replaced. That's mostly manufacturer only for the moment with many cars, but you can go on eBay right now and buy cells for Prius and Leaf, and replace yourself. That will happen away from main dealers when it gets out there. Electricity is dangerous, but so is petrol and diesel, which also use enough electricity to kill you.

JamoLew said:

i think the consensus is - each to their own, EV just isn't for me right now for various reasons

Indeed. Let's all try to keep those reasons the genuine ones, rather than misinformation (no accusations in any direction).

AdrianC

NBLondon said:

I also pay the council for the right to park in my street.

It doesn't quite work like that...

You pay the council to be permitted to park in the general vicinity of your street (depending on how wide an area the zone is), subject to availability of a space. You have no RIGHT.

NBLondon

Pedantry Adrian....   Arguably everyone initially has an equal right to park in that street; the council has by due process removed that right unless an appropriate permit has been obtained.  So by paying for a permit I am retaining that right.

The point being that the charge for the parking permit round here is based on the emissions of the vehicle - not on the amount of road space it takes up to park.  Changing to a hybrid would save money on the permit - even if it was physically larger.   Maybe I should get a Tesla truck and take up the whole street

AdrianC

NBLondon said:

Pedantry Adrian....   Arguably everyone initially has an equal right to park in that street; the council has by due process removed that right unless an appropriate permit has been obtained.  So by paying for a permit I am retaining that right.

Pedantry right up to the point you come home and there's no parking spaces available.

The point being that the charge for the parking permit round here is based on the emissions of the vehicle - not on the amount of road space it takes up to park.  Changing to a hybrid would save money on the permit - even if it was physically larger.   Maybe I should get a Tesla truck and take up the whole street

Bet there's a maximum size on the permit.

NBLondon

Since the restriction is time limited - it doesn't help much unless I want to leave the car there all day (working at home).  There have been days when I've been  working away, come back at 7 and the street is full because of parents' evening or something at the nearby school.  I pay for the convenience of not moving the car during the day to be honest.

Since the permit checks on registration numbers, it should query if I tried to register a large commercial vehicle that needs to be kept in a yard overnight - or push me to the business permit (which is dearer).  But the point again is that it charges more based on emissions - which is irrelevant to actual parking.  If they used the funds to install public charging points, I'd accept it.  But they are using it to manipulate other aims.

gzoom

Penelopa.Pitstop said:

I don't plan to get EV ever. Hopefully petrol/diesel cars will survive as long as I live and I don't have to drive EV. I like noise of engine and exhaust and don't want to drive silent car.

I use to be the same, this is my old car....

https://youtu.be/gLSrhdSRUoE

 https://youtu.be/k8YdhKSPsDM

But I traded it in for a Nissan Leaf!!!

That was way back in 2015, I've now done 60k miles in EVs and don't miss the noise like I thought I would. But it is funny hearing how much racket a Ferrari makes but yet still cannot pull away from a base spec 6 seater 3 ton family SUV running of the same fuel source as your smartphone .

https://youtu.be/j-uf9hf0jBk