Best way to prep for grammar school entry in Year 3

fred246

Your English is very good. Obviously show an aptitude for learning foreign languages.

Spendless

fred246 said:

Spendless said:

Davesnave said:

welshbabe88 said:

We did 11+ back in the 60s and I never noticed any special tutoring or pressure in school - we just did the test like a normal day - half got through, 4 and half didn't.

  As another 60s eleven plus candidate, my experience was different from yours.

For a start, there was the new bike often promised to those who succeeded, though in my case I knew it would be second-hand and awarded regardless of the result.

In the Year 6 top stream, all we did was engage with various elements of Maths and  English, plus frequent re-working of old 'intelligence' papers. There was also the 'treat' of art on Friday afternoons, which could be withdrawn for poor behaviour.This lasted until we sat the main exam, although there was an earlier one, which weeded out the no-hopers.

I distinctly remember being pleased when the big test was out of the way, so we'd have subjects like geography, history and 'nature' again. Best of all was knowing I'd no longer need to visit my tutor; a very tweedy lady, Miss Braddick, who lived in a dingy Victorian house.She was my maths crammer. I wasn't scared of the Head, who used to shout and hit me almost every day, but I was terrified of her and the evil fractions and percentages she'd have ready-prepared in my notebook. She also had a small beard, which I tried hard not to stare at

I don't think we dwelled on the exam once it was done. On the morning the results arrived, other children rushed out of the school gate to tell me I'd passed, and for a moment or two I didn't understand what they were talking about.

I didn't expect to pass, so the enormity of what had happened didn't sink in immediately. Besides, I was deeply concerned that the bike was not just second-hand, but very sub-standard, without straight handlebars. Had my parents also imagined the sec-mod on the hill was my future destination?

She still finds it hurtful to this day. 

That's the sad bit. Feeling a failure for the rest of your life after an exam at age 11. It doesn't make sense why you can't educate everyone in the same building. You have different classes with different abilities so movement is possible. The league tables just made everything worse. I imagined that people paying privately would want a more complicated analysis of the league tables. They just want to send their children to the school with the best exam results even though they are highly selective schools who should have the best exam results because they are selective.

And you know she was still successful. Left school and trained as a hairdresser at 15 and worked in that proession all her life. Sometimes for other people, sometimes mobile, sometimes owning her own shop, depending on what her personal circs were at the time. Worked long past retirement till ill health forced her to mostly give up. Still does the odd bit now including being asked recently if she can help out on a mobile round as and when they can go back to work as there's such a big build up of women wanting perms.
She doesn't regret that she wasn't able to go to Grammar school. She's just hurt that her parents made a condition of a bike dependant on her passing an exam and didn't get it due to her academic ability. I've only ever come across this sort of story in my own family before which is why I asked Dave if it was commonplace.

peachyprice

Fireflyaway said:

peachyprice said:

You don't need to prepare for Prep School,  they'll take your money regardless of your child's ability.

I thought OP was meaning they want their son to attend a state maintained grammar school? Or are you suggesting they send him to a fee paying prep school to prepare him to get into a state grammar? I do know of people who have done that. 

There are no state maintained grammar schools for year 3 children. 

From the OP
We would love for him to go to a grammar school and found that there is a grammar school where we live that offers entry in Year 3.

That will not be a state grammar school, it will be a private Prep school, perhaps feeding into the state grammar at year 7. 

Mojisola

fred246 said:

That's the sad bit. Feeling a failure for the rest of your life after an exam at age 11. It doesn't make sense why you can't educate everyone in the same building. You have different classes with different abilities so movement is possible.

That's how my school worked - five classes in each year - two were for those who had passed the 11+; one for those who had just passed and just failed; and two for those who had failed. 

There was a little movement between the classes in the first couple of years so that later developers could move up.  I don't remember anyone going down.

After that, it became more difficult because the classes had different lessons, supposedly to educate us for the different roles we would find ourselves in when we joined the adult world.

Fireflyaway

peachyprice said:

Fireflyaway said:

peachyprice said:

You don't need to prepare for Prep School,  they'll take your money regardless of your child's ability.

I thought OP was meaning they want their son to attend a state maintained grammar school? Or are you suggesting they send him to a fee paying prep school to prepare him to get into a state grammar? I do know of people who have done that. 

There are no state maintained grammar schools for year 3 children. 

From the OP
We would love for him to go to a grammar school and found that there is a grammar school where we live that offers entry in Year 3.

That will not be a state grammar school, it will be a private Prep school, perhaps feeding into the state grammar at year 7. 

That's what I thought. Never heard of a grammar that starts at year 3. 
I've known a few people pay for private school from reception until year 6 hoping the children  stand a better chance of passing the exam. Again it's giving an advantage to those who can afford to pay. I think some parents also expect more because they are paying and it would be easy for this to be conveyed to the kids if the parents are not careful. 

Ibizafan

I went to a grammar school in the 60s and my sons both went to the local one in the 90s. They were both quite lazy academically, only doing the minimum to get by, and although people often say that if children are bright enough they will succeed in any school, I’m afraid I don’t agree. I actually think they’d have come out with mediocre results in the local high schools, but they were surrounded by pretty motivated children in the main, which helped. Back in the 90s there wasn’t much tutoring being done, although people sometimes did practice papers to get children used to answering the questions in the time allotted, which is quite an important factor. Unlike back in the 60s, nowadays grammar schools are pretty much attended by middle class children which is a shame. In my day, pupils came from all backgrounds and in our county the secondary modern schools often did O and A levels as well. Interestingly, Germany has a selective school system as well, although there isn’t an actual exam. Entry to grammar schools is recommended by teachers at the primary schools, although parents can insist that their children have a place. This can result in them having to leave because they cannot keep up with the work. My friend who is a teacher in a grammar school thinks the system isn’t perfect over there, especially for the children who do have to leave.

maman

Your comment about children doing well when surrounded by motivated children Ibizafan  is often why some comprehensives can become 'sink schools'. The brain drain to grammar schools deprives the otherllocal schools of being literally comprehensive. Similarly in areas, like mine, where there are no grammar schools some comprehensives (and primaries) are disadvantaged by the policy of parental preference (aka parental choice) where parents who can afford it bus or drive their children to out of catchment schools. That's selection by a different method. It all adds to the inequality that's so much in the news at the moment. 

Madmel

Davesnave said:

Madmel said:

I can't believe this.  Your child is in Reception and you are already stressing about grammar schools?  Poor child!

I teach in a state grammar school that both my DCs attended so I do know something about it.  I can spot a tutored child easily.  They are often inflexible in their thinking and reasoning because they have been drilled in how to answer particular types of questions.  It doesn't do them any favours, and as a previous poster has said, they quickly develop feelings of inadequacy because once they have passed the exam, the tutoring stops.  My DCs were not tutored.  We worked through some off-the-shelf books from WH Smiths before the exams to get them used to the types of questions, probably for about 9 months once a week until the exam.

If you really want to help your DC, read with them every day.  When they read to you, ask them questions about the text.  Are they simply reading the letters in a formulaic manner or do they understand what they are reading?  What do they think might happen next?  Ask them about something that was described 2 pages ago.  Can they remember the details?  Do age-appropriate number work with them.  It's a long time ago now but when my DC were young we used to play number games, first using number bonds up to 5, then 10, then using times tables.  I'm not saying it was down to this, but both have top grade A levels in Maths & Further Maths so it can't have done them any harm.  Take your DC out to places.  Look at the plants.  If you & they don't know the name of it, look it up.  How many petals does the flower have?  What colour is it?  How tall is it?  Basically spark their curiosity about the world around them and foster a love of learning.  There is plenty of time for cramming later.

I wish I could thank this 100 times. As a former teacher with 35 years of it on the clock, I agree with all you say and suggest.

Dave, that has made me well up.  Thank you so much.  I'm not a million miles from you and often agree with your advice on the House Buying, Selling & Renting thread.  It's nice to see positivity on here.  Much appreciated!

Ibizafan

Maman, I agree with you, and in an ideal world grammar schools wouldn’t exist because all schools would be excellent, but we have to do what’s best for our children with what we have available. I don’t regret giving them a chance to go to a grammar school (and they had to pass the 11 plus without me doing it for them). They had an excellent education and have done very well in university and subsequent employment. I understand if people think it’s an unfair system, but I’d do the same thing again, and don’t condemn anyone else who wants the same chance for their children.

GaleSF63

I took the eleven plus exam in 1961. Until then I'd never taken a formal exam (short tests in class only) and we weren't "prepared" for it and there was no build up. I'm not aware of any rewards for passing so although I can't imagine that no child was given anything by their parents it obviously wasn't a big thing.

As an aside, there was a large wooden board high up on the wall of my secondary school with "xxxx xxxx Grammar School" on it. The second A of grammar stood out a bit because it had been painted over. It had originally said "Grammer School"!