I might get fired for Gross Misconduct and I'm scared what will happen

Manxman_in_exile

Adamthom85 said:

Jsacker said:

MalMonroe said:

I love the way Lomast has just given you some really unhelpful 'advice' there. He or she has just accepted that you are in the wrong.

 I'm shocked that someone complained to your workplace about something you put on Facebook, unless you did it in work time and used their equipment to write about a colleague. Why didn't the person come directly to you? Because it's quite an easy thing to ask you to remove your comment.

It's funny but you sort of tainted an otherwise decent piece of advice by randomly going after Lomast there! I'm in agreement with quite a bit of what you posted, but to just address the Lomast bit:

- I don't think that Lomast's advice was about figuring out the "rights and wrongs" of the case, so I don't think they accepted either position here. It was about offering advice which prevents this sort of thing from happening again in the future, IRRESPECTIVE of whether it is right or wrong.

- In terms of your shock about their colleague reporting them for something outside of work, and not confronting the person who posted it... I can't speak for the more sensitive types of people who report distasteful comments (I don't generally care enough), and maybe they should have extended that courtesy, but if a colleague of mine was posting (racist) stuff which falls within the scope of reporting it to the police then I'm going to the police and the employer every single time. I'm not confronting the person, because I'll end up in a scrap with them (very likely not initiated by me, I must stress) and the evidence will magically disappear (yes, it is "quite an easy thing to ask you to remove your comment" )

Hi, I don't believe I actually said anything racist but may have called someone an idiot or an !!!!!!. The reason for that was I was trying to have a debate and I was asking questions (respectfully) but was simply called a white supremacist who can't understand how black people feel and those words offended me and I guess I used language I shouldn't...which I have to own up to. Also it wasn't a colleague, it was on a public forum, nothing to do with work and a random person managed to find my old linked in profile to see where I worked and complained that way

Hmmm.  I'm a 62 year old, privileged (apparently) white male, retired public sector manager, and I'd have to say it would be hard to think of a more inappropriate (I really want to say "stupid") response.  If you are going to feel offended because somebody (whether justly or unjustly) calls you a white supremacist who can't understand how black people feel, then I suggest you steer well clear of all social media - especially at the moment.  And I can't stress enough that it really doesn't matter whether somebody was justified or not in calling you a white supremacist.  If it's going to offend you so much that you might be seen to be resorting to "abusive" language, then you really ought not to get involved at all.  At the very least, do not take part in discussions on social media about topics that could even be vaguely controversial or where your beliefs and intentions might be misconstrued.

I have worked with valued individuals who occasionally were compelled to speak their mind and had to say whatever was in their head without any regard whatsoever as to the proprieties of what they were saying or the context it was said in.  Such people can be really valuable colleagues in some situations, but are often their own worst enemy.  If you have "form" in this area, you need to address it.

NB:  I'm not trying to pick fault with you and I'm not saying that the responses of others and your employer are justifiable.  I'm simply suggesting that for your own good, you need reflect on how you may be seen by others on social media.

ScottishGuy1122

Manxman_in_exile said:

Adamthom85 said:

Jsacker said:

MalMonroe said:

I love the way Lomast has just given you some really unhelpful 'advice' there. He or she has just accepted that you are in the wrong.

 I'm shocked that someone complained to your workplace about something you put on Facebook, unless you did it in work time and used their equipment to write about a colleague. Why didn't the person come directly to you? Because it's quite an easy thing to ask you to remove your comment.

It's funny but you sort of tainted an otherwise decent piece of advice by randomly going after Lomast there! I'm in agreement with quite a bit of what you posted, but to just address the Lomast bit:

- I don't think that Lomast's advice was about figuring out the "rights and wrongs" of the case, so I don't think they accepted either position here. It was about offering advice which prevents this sort of thing from happening again in the future, IRRESPECTIVE of whether it is right or wrong.

- In terms of your shock about their colleague reporting them for something outside of work, and not confronting the person who posted it... I can't speak for the more sensitive types of people who report distasteful comments (I don't generally care enough), and maybe they should have extended that courtesy, but if a colleague of mine was posting (racist) stuff which falls within the scope of reporting it to the police then I'm going to the police and the employer every single time. I'm not confronting the person, because I'll end up in a scrap with them (very likely not initiated by me, I must stress) and the evidence will magically disappear (yes, it is "quite an easy thing to ask you to remove your comment" )

Hi, I don't believe I actually said anything racist but may have called someone an idiot or an !!!!!!. The reason for that was I was trying to have a debate and I was asking questions (respectfully) but was simply called a white supremacist who can't understand how black people feel and those words offended me and I guess I used language I shouldn't...which I have to own up to. Also it wasn't a colleague, it was on a public forum, nothing to do with work and a random person managed to find my old linked in profile to see where I worked and complained that way

Hmmm.  I'm a 62 year old, privileged (apparently) white male, retired public sector manager, and I'd have to say it would be hard to think of a more inappropriate (I really want to say "stupid") response.  If you are going to feel offended because somebody (whether justly or unjustly) calls you a white supremacist who can't understand how black people feel, then I suggest you steer well clear of all social media - especially at the moment.  And I can't stress enough that it really doesn't matter whether somebody was justified or not in calling you a white supremacist.  If it's going to offend you so much that you might be seen to be resorting to "abusive" language, then you really ought not to get involved at all.  At the very least, do not take part in discussions on social media about topics that could even be vaguely controversial or where your beliefs and intentions might be misconstrued.

I have worked with valued individuals who occasionally were compelled to speak their mind and had to say whatever was in their head without any regard whatsoever as to the proprieties of what they were saying or the context it was said in.  Such people can be really valuable colleagues in some situations, but are often their own worst enemy.  If you have "form" in this area, you need to address it.

NB:  I'm not trying to pick fault with you and I'm not saying that the responses of others and your employer are justifiable.  I'm simply suggesting that for your own good, you need reflect on how you may be seen by others on social media.

Thanks, I agree..I let my emotions get the best of me as the post before I had even said I hate racism as I find it stupid to judge someone on the colour of their skin and I guess it was a combination of the racist language being aimed at me, the isolation ( I live in a tiny room in a flat share) have not really left and have no family here and haven't seem them in over 6 months, along with stress, anxiety and other mental health issues I've started to notice....I fully accept what I said was wrong and I fully take ownership for that.

I just have to plead my case, be open and honest, explain mitigating reasons for not dismissal ( I would be homeless, in this climate I would find it extremely hard to find a job with a gross misconduct on my record when no one is hiring and we are in an economic mess) and I know this would push my mental health to breaking point, I've been to the very dark places of mental health before but managed to claw back and I worked really hard for this job, sacraficed so much etc.

At the end of the day, it's my fault and I can't make the decision for them.

Undervalued

cymruchris said:

If it’s a reasonable sized firm with a decent HR department - The first thing that should happen is your formal investigationary interview where the facts can be established. This should be sat down somewhere private, with a record of the conversation made in the form of notes that you can inspect, review and amend if necessary before the interview is concluded.

 It’s here they should present their evidence and ask questions around the incident. Technically it would have been better not to have mentioned it you informally just before the weekend - would have been better if they’d kept it to themselves until monday, for your sake of not worrying about it all weekend. What they will have to establish is whether anything you’ve done, said or posted has significantly caused damage, or will likely cause significant damage to the company. If you’ve said something inappropriate in public - it may not be sufficient to dismiss you, if it’s not directly related to the company itself.

 The purpose of your initial meeting is to gather facts, ask questions, that will then allow them to go forward and review the details, to come to a disciplinary decision should it be needed. If it had been something they thought was immensely serious, I would have expected them to call you in on Friday afternoon, and suspend you immediately pending investigation on Monday. They haven’t done this, so although they might deem it serious, they might not deem it as dismissible. The important thing on your Monday meeting is to be open and honest. If you’ve said something you regret, apologise for it. Ensure you make it clear what your meaning behind your post was, as words can often be misconstrued on the Internet, but do bear in mind that any explanation you give must be plausible. If it sounds like it’s come from cloud cuckoo land - they might take a dim view of it. Stay calm, see what happens, ensure the record of the meeting is factual, ensure all your points are recorded honestly and appropriately. Try not to get emotional. Update us as to your progress once your first meeting has concluded. 

That is all fine but, unless I have missed it, nowhere does the OP say how long they have been employed by this firm?

If it is less than two years and the firm is minded to dismiss they can do so with far less formality.

If the OP has been employed for less than two years then, to be honest, the best advice is to grovel like he has never grovelled before! Back this up with gently reminding the firm or his (hopefully) otherwise excellent record. Avoid splitting hairs over minor technical points.

If he has been employed for more than two years then the firm will need to make a reasonable attempt to conduct a fair process. If they are reasonably satisfied that the misconduct took place they could most likely dismiss fairly (in law). That is not to say that they will, they may choose a lesser sanction, but dismissal would almost certainly be within the range of sanctions a reasonable employer may choose, which is all the law requires.

Brynsam

cymruchris said:

If it’s a reasonable sized firm with a decent HR department - The first thing that should happen is your formal investigationary interview where the facts can be established. This should be sat down somewhere private, with a record of the conversation made in the form of notes that you can inspect, review and amend if necessary before the interview is concluded.

'Somewhere private' is likely to be OP's room - they won't be meeting in person, according to his previous posts (and the state of the nation).

OP, just don't be tempted to have a drink to stiffen your resolve before the call...

ScottishGuy1122

Undervalued said:

cymruchris said:

If it’s a reasonable sized firm with a decent HR department - The first thing that should happen is your formal investigationary interview where the facts can be established. This should be sat down somewhere private, with a record of the conversation made in the form of notes that you can inspect, review and amend if necessary before the interview is concluded.

 It’s here they should present their evidence and ask questions around the incident. Technically it would have been better not to have mentioned it you informally just before the weekend - would have been better if they’d kept it to themselves until monday, for your sake of not worrying about it all weekend. What they will have to establish is whether anything you’ve done, said or posted has significantly caused damage, or will likely cause significant damage to the company. If you’ve said something inappropriate in public - it may not be sufficient to dismiss you, if it’s not directly related to the company itself.

 The purpose of your initial meeting is to gather facts, ask questions, that will then allow them to go forward and review the details, to come to a disciplinary decision should it be needed. If it had been something they thought was immensely serious, I would have expected them to call you in on Friday afternoon, and suspend you immediately pending investigation on Monday. They haven’t done this, so although they might deem it serious, they might not deem it as dismissible. The important thing on your Monday meeting is to be open and honest. If you’ve said something you regret, apologise for it. Ensure you make it clear what your meaning behind your post was, as words can often be misconstrued on the Internet, but do bear in mind that any explanation you give must be plausible. If it sounds like it’s come from cloud cuckoo land - they might take a dim view of it. Stay calm, see what happens, ensure the record of the meeting is factual, ensure all your points are recorded honestly and appropriately. Try not to get emotional. Update us as to your progress once your first meeting has concluded. 

That is all fine but, unless I have missed it, nowhere does the OP say how long they have been employed by this firm?

If it is less than two years and the firm is minded to dismiss they can do so with far less formality.

If the OP has been employed for less than two years then, to be honest, the best advice is to grovel like he has never grovelled before! Back this up with gently reminding the firm or his (hopefully) otherwise excellent record. Avoid splitting hairs over minor technical points.

If he has been employed for more than two years then the firm will need to make a reasonable attempt to conduct a fair process. If they are reasonably satisfied that the misconduct took place they could most likely dismiss fairly (in law). That is not to say that they will, they may choose a lesser sanction, but dismissal would almost certainly be within the range of sanctions a reasonable employer may choose, which is all the law requires.

I have been with them for 2 1/2 years so over the 2 year period. It's a very large company (thousands of employees) which is why I found it strange just a casual mention on Friday and then a casual mention of having another chat by telephone Monday. If it was an investigatory meeting wouldn't they do it over Skype as I can't see any evidence or take notes properly?

It seems strange as any large employer I have heard doing disciplinary meetings, they have got the employee in with their manager and the investigator and everything is written down by the witness to record everything word for word.

But that can't happen on just a one to one general chat...unless I'm just being horribly naive.

ScottishGuy1122

Brynsam said:

cymruchris said:

If it’s a reasonable sized firm with a decent HR department - The first thing that should happen is your formal investigationary interview where the facts can be established. This should be sat down somewhere private, with a record of the conversation made in the form of notes that you can inspect, review and amend if necessary before the interview is concluded.

'Somewhere private' is likely to be OP's room - they won't be meeting in person, according to his previous posts (and the state of the nation).

OP, just don't be tempted to have a drink to stiffen your resolve before the call...

Definitely won't be doing that..Thanks for the advice though, I can see why someone might.

sharpe106

They already know what you have done or not done, they have seen it. So all you can do is try to explain it and say how sorry you are.

JReacher1

They might just provide some advice on how to separate your personal life with work life. 

Now you’ve explained what’s happened I wouldn’t worry too much. You seem to have got in an argument with an incredibly petty internet warrior who has decided to find out who you work for online and send an email to your company complaining about you. 

It’s ridiculous behaviour by the individual and I would suspect they’ve not provided a real name or address. 

See what happens on the call tomorrow but in my experience things like this are not taken too seriously unless you’ve done something really bad which has obviously brought your employer into disrepute. 

Marcon

Adamthom85 said:

I have been with them for 2 1/2 years so over the 2 year period. It's a very large company (thousands of employees) which is why I found it strange just a casual mention on Friday and then a casual mention of having another chat by telephone Monday. If it was an investigatory meeting wouldn't they do it over Skype as I can't see any evidence or take notes properly?

HR haven't exactly covered themselves in glory - an inconclusive and under-informed phone call at 5.00 pm on a Friday? Sounds like an ill-judged back covering exercise on their part. Hopefully by tomorrow someone will have thought better of it and be prepared to have a more sensible conversation.

ScottishGuy1122

JReacher1 said:

They might just provide some advice on how to separate your personal life with work life. 

Now you’ve explained what’s happened I wouldn’t worry too much. You seem to have got in an argument with an incredibly petty internet warrior who has decided to find out who you work for online and send an email to your company complaining about you. 

It’s ridiculous behaviour by the individual and I would suspect they’ve not provided a real name or address. 

See what happens on the call tomorrow but in my experience things like this are not taken too seriously unless you’ve done something really bad which has obviously brought your employer into disrepute. 

Thanks, I've not mentioned my employer, my industry or anyone I work with on any of the comments and it's not only profile who I work for either...so here's hoping it's a warning about the potential troubles of using social media, which I vow never to use again.