Lost deposits for a holiday that ends up being cancelled

Streaky_Bacon

Thrugelmir said: The point I was making is that the operational costs of a travel company are extremely high. There's unlikely to be any profit element until the holiday is finally concluded. 

That's OK. To win, the provider just needs to sufficiently explain how they have calculated their loss of profit and/or unrecoverable expenditure and provide sufficient evidence to back that up.

Either they can do that or they can't.

It seems in the case of Bruce Crawcour v TUI that they couldn't.

Thrugelmir

He proved that his flights and hotel were sold to some else.  Makes somewhat of a difference when the holiday had been paid for in full and cancellation was 6 days before departure. 

Life__Goes__On

Thrugelmir said:

He proved that his flights and hotel were sold to some else.  Makes somewhat of a difference when the holiday had been paid for in full and cancellation was 6 days before departure. 

Much easier to resell a holiday with 6 days before departure than months, wait! hold on, that doesn't make sense

Showing there was only 6 days,  makes it a much stronger case  if it was cancelled months before,  thanks for pointing that out.

Thrugelmir

Life__Goes__On said:

Thrugelmir said:

He proved that his flights and hotel were sold to some else.  Makes somewhat of a difference when the holiday had been paid for in full and cancellation was 6 days before departure. 

Much easier to resell a holiday with 6 days before departure than months, wait! hold on, that doesn't make sense

Showing there was only 6 days,  makes it a much stronger case  if it was cancelled months before,  thanks for pointing that out.

Thought that we discussing initial deposits paid? 

Nor has everyone been a barrister during their lifetime. Usefull when mounting a legal challenge. 

Life__Goes__On

Thrugelmir said:

Nor has everyone been a barrister during their lifetime. Usefull when mounting a legal challenge. 

Seems Mr Cartwright understands this and kindly supplied a letter template, useful having advice from a former barrister when mounting a legal challenge.

prowla

It's a question of who blinks first; if you cancel your holiday, you lose.

Life__Goes__On

prowla said:

It's a question of who blinks first; if you cancel your holiday, you lose.

Don't remember seeing that in the CRA 2015,  can you link to it?

bagand96

At this point in time, the big airlines and holiday companies might as well just declare themselves insolvent, then sit it out for a restart under a new name for the winter season or Summer 2021.

Streaky_Bacon

Thrugelmir said:

He proved that his flights and hotel were sold to some else.  Makes somewhat of a difference when the holiday had been paid for in full and cancellation was 6 days before departure. 

No, that's not why he won actually. Although he could show that it had been resold or cancelled, his argument in court, which was accepted by the judge was as follows:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/Thomson-case-could-spell-end-of-unfair-holiday-cancellation-charges/

The case was heard in the Small Claims Court in Telford last week, and despite TUI’s case being presented by a specialist London barrister, the judge decided in favour of Mr Crawcour, ruling that the cancellation band in the contract for the holiday could not be a genuine "pre-estimate of loss" and was therefore an unfair contract term.

As I have tried to explain several times, they can only withhold a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

The whole point is that a cancellation charge or a non-refundable deposit is not enforceable simply because it is in the contract. It has to be a genuine pre-estimate and the provider would have to show that it was, and TUI were unable to do that.

Once a court decides that a contract term is unfair, it will no longer be enforceable, which is what happened in this case.

Bear in mind that, in a situation where the holiday ends up being cancelled eventually, that is absolute proof that there was no loss of profit. That would also be the case if you could show that it was no longer possible to book the holiday, just before departure.

Streaky_Bacon

Thrugelmir said:

Thought that we discussing initial deposits paid?
Nor has everyone been a barrister during their lifetime. Usefull when mounting a legal challenge.

No doubt, but that doesn't change the legal position.

But let's not forget that, yes, there is a vast difference between the law and obtaining a judgment based upon that law and successful enforcement of that judgment.

However, that applies to getting balances back as well as deposits, and there is no shortage of posters advising that people hand over thousands of pounds of balance payments, even though probably very few of those people are barristers.