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Given Redundancy

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joepattijoepatti Forumite
4 posts
First Post
I was placed on furlough end of March until further notice and then on my 6th anniversary with the company they emailed to have a chat with HR and a director the following day.  They said they were proposing to make my sales role redundant and bring in a sales agency to do the job.  The agency would not be employed by the conpany but would receive commission as opposed to my salary on any sales they make.  The conpany is a global company and are cash rich.  Only 5 people across EMEA are effected.  This has nothing to do with performance as I’ve never had any performance talks since I’ve been in the job.  They had the first consultation meeting third week of April and have not been in touch since.  They sent over minutes of the first meeting and some calculations for settlement.  It was statutory which is taxable.   Notice pay.  Taxable.  And a ex gratia which is less than 1 months net salary.   Considering the current climate am I in my rights to ask for this to be increased or fair to be looked at again?  They have not come back to me for over a month and I have many many questions I want to ask them in my second meeting.  They are dragging this and it’s really not helping me in these uncertain times.  The handling is very poor and I’ve not had any communication in nearly 1 month.  What is my situation and what would you suggest I do.
Ive been getting paid but im not sure where I stand legally and if the consultation 
process is being done correctly.



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Replies

  • sharpe106sharpe106 Forumite
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    You can ask for them to look at it again or increase the amount, but nothing making them do anything. If they are going to make you redundant anyway them dragging their heels is better for you as you will carry on getting paid. So leave them to it.


  • pleasedeletepleasedelete Forumite
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    Have you explored the right to TUPE to the new provider of the service? 
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  • Grumpy_chapGrumpy_chap Forumite
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    The fact they started this process on the 6th anniversary of joining is probably just coincidence.

    The fact it is a global company and cash rich is not particularly significant - they are allowed to structure their business and sales organisation in whichever way they see fit.  What being a big employer probably means is that they do know and will follow the rules and procedure that is required.

    I suggest contacting CAB for clarity over the consultation process.  As far as I am aware, it simply has to be 'fair' and, if only 5 people are affected I understand there is no minimum duration the consultation period has to be, for larger groups it has to be minimum 30 days or 45 days.  My wife is currently going through a redundancy consultation and we could not find anything prescriptive about the steps required in a small organisation with few people affected.  Is there anything written into your contract of employment and / or staff handbook, or company intranet that describe the procedure within the company you work for?  As a large organisation there may well be something available.  I would expect at least a second consultation meeting - my wife works for a company of only 20 or so and still has 3 meetings.

    What I do understand is that you have to be given the opportunity to apply for any other 'suitable' vacancies within the business, so it would be worth making a request that as you so very much like working for them, could they let you know whether there are any other vacancies across the business?  Leave out the word 'suitable' as that gives them a get out and, while your current role is sales based within the UK, how do the company know what other skills you have and that you are not entirely suitable to fulfill the vacancy for 'magician' based in Delhi?

    Regarding the settlement, redundancy pay (whether statutory or enhanced) is usually not taxable.  Notice pay is taxable.  The ex-gratia is usually added to redundancy pay and therefore not taxable.  You should also be paid any overtime or holiday pay accrued up until the end of the notice period (taxable).  You can ask for the ex-gratia amount to be increase, and they probably expect this request as part of the negotiation.  Try to base your request on something with a basis, rather than just a bigger number than you were offered and don't expect them to just agree as much as you ask for.  In return for any ex-gratia amount, you will be asked to sign a Settlement Agreement, which is that they pay you money and you will not take them to court, tribunal or berate them on social media.  Obviously, you won't waive those rights for a very small sum.

    As @pleasedelete suggested, ask about TUPE as that could well apply here.  Another option is to ask whether you can take on the roll as the sales agency yourself, or together with the other 4 people that are affected.

    Do you know why the company are making this change from employed to sales agency?
  • joepattijoepatti Forumite
    4 posts
    First Post
    Well it’s still ongoing and I’ve been asked if I want to travel to London for ,y second consultation meeting.  I’ve declined to reply,  my colleague has. Had his second and final meeting and now has his notice period.  What’s the point in me having a second meeting if I know the other guy has been finished?  It’s a loss leader as all the questions I was going to ask he will have already asked.   I’m lost for ideas to what to do 
  • sharpe106sharpe106 Forumite
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    Attending the meeting or not will not change the outcome. At least you can discuss with them face to face. 
  • joepattijoepatti Forumite
    4 posts
    First Post
    So work contacted me and have said they will look to get me back to work this or next week as it’s easier for communication to have my work laptop active again.......why get me back to work?  If there is nothing to do why just so it’s easier to contact me via work email?  Really odd considering I’ve still
    not had a second consultation meeting after starting the process on April 15th
    i want to speak to a solicitor to see if this is being handled wrongly as I suspect it is. Also found out they have been speaking to several agencies and one has won the contract but suspect they won’t announce it or cannot till my fate is sealed
  • sharpe106sharpe106 Forumite
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    Maybe work has come in recently, so the situation has changed. 
  • lincroft1710lincroft1710 Forumite
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    Unless they are not following due process, there is little point in contacting a solicitor. They are doing nothing wrong by not accelerating it, you in fact benefit by still being in employment. If you are anxious to leave, then you can always resign.
  • Grumpy_chapGrumpy_chap Forumite
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    Possibly, if the redundancy process started April 15th and then stalled, they would have to re-start again so resetting the clock.  I am not expert, but there must be some limit, otherwise, employers could keep employees in a state of perma-consultation.  Maybe ask CAB on that one.

    Perhaps they are getting you back to work because there is work to do, or you will be TUPEd to the new sales agency?  Have you looked into the TUPE rules and whether they apply here?  If work is outsourced, TUPE may apply.
  • joepattijoepatti Forumite
    4 posts
    First Post
    Morning guys,  well im still in consultation process 2 months since my first meeting.  I have a second meeting today with HR and a director via zoom.  This has been delayed and delayed and delayed.  My colleague who was also at risk has since had his second and third meeting, worked a month and now left last week.  I know the company has held talks with agencys about giving them the work but the talks have broken down.  So this meeting to me seems like a tick box exercise.  They have not once contacted me in 3 months of being on furlough to check im ok or my family is ok and I think that has got my back up even more.  The settlement they offered is statutory for 6 years plus around 3 weeks net salary.  I believe this is a disgrace and I am looking to see what people think about me being a 'awkward' customer.  I 'am' entitled to the statutory plus notice, holidays etc.  But the gratia payment of 3 weeks is a kick in the teeth and I am prepared to push them to offer more.  This was not done in the correct way and only 4 people across europe were effected so its not a financial issue that i am being made redundant as the work is still there.  Got call today if anyone can give some advise.  Speaking to a solictor tomorrow.  Thanks
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