Surprise debt collection notice from Tonik - 18 months later

mjp89

Hi all,
This morning I received a text message saying that I had correspondence from UKSL (never heard of them) that I needed to login to an online platform to view.  I looked them up, saw they were a debt collection agency and accessed the letter which was informing me that they were continuing operations during Covid in relation to my debt with their client, Tonik energy.

I was supplied by Tonik in my previous rental property but left them in November 2018.  I went through a further two providers at that property and have now moved.  I've received absolutely no correspondence of any kind (letter, phone call, email; nothing) since leaving Tonik.  I paid them via monthly direct debit.

I spoke to the debt collectors and they said that, basically, I just need to pay and speak to Tonik with any issues.  I made a subject access request for all information on my case that they hold; they've said they'll contact their client for this.  After 40 minutes on the phone with Tonik I got to someone in customer services who said that they hadn't received meter readings from my new supplier (I've spoken with them and they've given me the readings and confirmed they sent them to the industry regulator back in 2018).    Tonik cannot explain how my final bill has been generated and can't provide a copy of a bill or the 'estimated' meter readings used and are telling me their systems don't go back that far and they can't update the bill to reflect my actual final reading.  They have sent the readings I provided to their collections team just in case but advised that I pay the bill or speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau.

This seems ridiculous to me!  Granted I made a mistake by not realising that I hadn't received a final bill, but can they insist that I pay based on their estimate rather than the actual figures that I have available?  And shouldn't they have been in touch before now?  Very grateful for any advice on what to do!

Many thanks

MWT

At the very least they must be able to provide you with a bill supporting the amount they claim they are owed, if they cannot do that then they have failed at the first hurdle and the debt collectors know that hence the suggestion you pay them first and argue about it later.

Do you have enough of your own records from that time to know what the final bill amount should be?

In communication with anyone I would maintain the stance that you are happy to pay what is owed upon receipt of an accurate bill using the final reading provided to them via the industry middleman when you switched...

mjp89

MWT said:

At the very least they must be able to provide you with a bill supporting the amount they claim they are owed, if they cannot do that then they have failed at the first hurdle and the debt collectors know that hence the suggestion you pay them first and argue about it later.

Do you have enough of your own records from that time to know what the final bill amount should be?

In communication with anyone I would maintain the stance that you are happy to pay what is owed upon receipt of an accurate bill using the final reading provided to them via the industry middleman when you switched...

Thanks for your reply.  Frustratingly I left the paperwork in a folder at the old flat which the landlord has now taken back.  I do have the meter readings that the new provider (PurePlanet) used as my starting readings and that I was paying a direct debit up until the month that I left.

I've had an email back from Tonik:
'Hello.  I've had feedback from my billing/collections team and they have confirmed that you had smart meters in the address.  This means the reads are transmitted everyday so the readings are accurate up until the day.  Its advised that you settle or make payment plans with UK search [the debt collectors]'.

I've asked them again to provide the meter readings they've used.  My recollection is that my account was always in credit so I'm not sure which date they've taken the readings from and suspect they're trying to charge for some energy that I've already bought from PurePlanet.  It's also particularly frustrating as, if they had up to date readings, why has it been 18 months and still no final bill!?

MWT

CAB and others are a good place to ask for help with phrasing a letter, but it is important that with something like this you challenge the claim by the debt collector, in writing, within 30 days of them first contacting you.

You are entitled to have them provide evidence of the amount you owe and how it has been calculated, most reasonably in the form of a final bill. 

They cannot substantiate a claim just by giving you a random number and the debt collectors know this.

Push back, insist on the proper documentation proving what is owed and do it in writing, but get help to do it right.

MWT

I should add that you are also entitled to receive a statement of your account at the time the final bill was produced which would evidence any outstanding credit for example...

mjp89

I've responded to the debt collector with a subject access request seeking the full final bill and meter readings.  Will keep you posted! Thanks again for your help

GlennTheBaker

Interestingly, I have received letters from UK Search Ltd regarding an alleged debt to Tonik Energy. I left them in December 2018 and there was a balance remaining on my account. They eventually sent me a final bill which I paid and it is this amount for which they are chasing me. I can still log in to my Tonik account and can see the payment! I've raised the matter with Tonik via email (no response so far after 3 weeks) and have also contacted UKSL suggesting they take the matter up with Tonik. I've had a response from UKSL advising they will contact Tonik. 

mjp89

Hi all,
I heard back from Tonik this evening.  They've used a meter reading of 95 for the gas and the initial reading with my new supplier was 41.  I asked them to create a new bill and they've responded with  Please understand that we are only able to raise disputes for reads that are over 108 units difference for gas and 250Kwh for the electric. 

Seriously?  108 m^3 = 3420kWh which is roughly £137!  Surely they have no right to charge because they can't be bothered to change their own bill!?  I assume their threshold for gas is kWh and not m3...

I've sent a response showing the conversion.  What a joke.

MWT

mjp89 said:

Seriously?  108 m^3 = 3420kWh which is roughly £137!  Surely they have no right to charge because they can't be bothered to change their own bill!?  I assume their threshold for gas is kWh and not m3....

Firstly, 108 m3 = 1210kWh (roughly) which would be around £30 on any decent tariff, but the point is that they are quoting the industry rules on the results from the meter validation company that checks the opening and closing readings to make sure they are 'reasonable'.

They may be reasonable but they are also wrong a lot of the time, but both the losing and gaining company are supposed to use the same numbers, so contact your current provider and make sure they have the same result from the validation company and are using it for your billing, if they do not have the same number then lodge a complaint with your current supplier (...as well as Tonik if your current provider says they were given a different number by the validation company)

mjp89

Ah I'd selected imperial and not metric on the convertor!  Thanks for that

Unfortunately I left Pure Planet (the new supplier) around 8 months later but will try contacting them.  I'm really confused as the smart meters were installed four months before I left them.  I was paying a £42 monthly direct debit; I though the whole point was that smart meters enabled accurate billing!?  I'm still unwilling to pay without an itemised bill; I presume I'm within my rights to demand this?

brewerdave

I've had this argument with front line customer service staff about the thresholds for raising a dispute on more than one occasion. What they fail to understand is that the opening /closing read can be different from the reading given by the customer due to the third party verification step BUT BOTH suppliers MUST use the same readings!