Ellesmere College Don’t Tell The Truth On Sports Scholarships

EllesmereCollege_fake

pinkshoes said:

Getting back the consumer rights question...

Regardless of how people feel about a 10 year old doing so much sport, the question is whether the school mis-represented what was on offer.

Private schools are desperate to get students at the moment. A friend of mine moved house a couple of years ago, and all 3 of her kids attend private school. They visited several in the area and said it was like having a car or double glazing sales pitch, desperate to impress, everything they asked about the school could do etc... 

The OP made it clear to the school what was required for her son, and the school answered that question stating what they could offer. This is private education - when you are paying, you are entitled to get what you paid for!!

If the OP can prove that the school did not meet the requirements, then they have a perfectly good case. 

e.g. if you paid to go on a french language course with a degree qualified tutor, you'd be rather annoyed if DelBoy turned up greeting you with "Mange Tout Rodney!!". 

Thanks Pinkshoes! 

that is exactly how we feel, and we shall see what happens in the coming months. 

EllesmereCollege_fake

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

J_B said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why are you seeking advice here if you have engaged solicitors and they've told you you have a very strong case?

Just let them deal with it. I suspect they'd also advise you not to go around accusing the business of being fake or fraudulent on the world wide web, especially when you've given enough personal information to make it pretty obvious who you are.  You might find you're not the only party to engage solicitors. 

And maybe 'washing your dirty linen in public' may possibly (?) prejudice your case perhaps?

Or perhaps expose Ellesmere College for how they go about making false statements to recruit students, and if nothing comes of our case at least this post highlights to other parents not to believe what you are told when considering this school. 

That's not sensible at this stage because a) they're just allegations and b) J_B is correct in that it may prejudice your case.

By all means highlight to other parents after your case is settled in your favour, but doing so now is daft.

Not sure I agree, because I don’t want anyone else making the same mistakes we did. 

Let me share something else..... they already tried to settle this issue in January this year when the Headmaster admitted they made a mistake, they offered to contribute £1000 a term to find someone suitable for coaching, however haven’t actually found anyone in 5 months hence why we are here. 

Anyway I’ll be sure to return when this matter reaches a conclusion 

Aylesbury_Duck

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

J_B said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why are you seeking advice here if you have engaged solicitors and they've told you you have a very strong case?

Just let them deal with it. I suspect they'd also advise you not to go around accusing the business of being fake or fraudulent on the world wide web, especially when you've given enough personal information to make it pretty obvious who you are.  You might find you're not the only party to engage solicitors. 

And maybe 'washing your dirty linen in public' may possibly (?) prejudice your case perhaps?

Or perhaps expose Ellesmere College for how they go about making false statements to recruit students, and if nothing comes of our case at least this post highlights to other parents not to believe what you are told when considering this school. 

That's not sensible at this stage because a) they're just allegations and b) J_B is correct in that it may prejudice your case.

By all means highlight to other parents after your case is settled in your favour, but doing so now is daft.

Not sure I agree, because I don’t want anyone else making the same mistakes we did. 

Let me share something else..... they already tried to settle this issue in January this year when the Headmaster admitted they made a mistake, they offered to contribute £1000 a term to find someone suitable for coaching, however haven’t actually found anyone in 5 months hence why we are here. 

Anyway I’ll be sure to return when this matter reaches a conclusion 

That's pertinent information you're drip-feeding at a late stage, but it seems to add to your case.  By all means ignore my advice but I suspect if you show your solicitor this thread, s/he will suggest you delete it.

waamo

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

J_B said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why are you seeking advice here if you have engaged solicitors and they've told you you have a very strong case?

Just let them deal with it. I suspect they'd also advise you not to go around accusing the business of being fake or fraudulent on the world wide web, especially when you've given enough personal information to make it pretty obvious who you are.  You might find you're not the only party to engage solicitors. 

And maybe 'washing your dirty linen in public' may possibly (?) prejudice your case perhaps?

Or perhaps expose Ellesmere College for how they go about making false statements to recruit students, and if nothing comes of our case at least this post highlights to other parents not to believe what you are told when considering this school. 

That's not sensible at this stage because a) they're just allegations and b) J_B is correct in that it may prejudice your case.

By all means highlight to other parents after your case is settled in your favour, but doing so now is daft.

Not sure I agree, because I don’t want anyone else making the same mistakes we did. 

Let me share something else..... they already tried to settle this issue in January this year when the Headmaster admitted they made a mistake, they offered to contribute £1000 a term to find someone suitable for coaching, however haven’t actually found anyone in 5 months hence why we are here. 

Anyway I’ll be sure to return when this matter reaches a conclusion 

That's pertinent information you're drip-feeding at a late stage, but it seems to add to your case.  By all means ignore my advice but I suspect if you show your solicitor this thread, s/he will suggest you delete it.

I agree with this. Anything that may prejudice potential legal action isn't a good idea. You seem to have a genuine grievance and the extra information you've provided suggests you may well have a strong case.

I'm not convinced it's a good idea to do anything that would jeopardise that case. After it's concluded you should be free to do what you like, assuming no none disclosure agreement is reached.

Manxman_in_exile

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

J_B said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why are you seeking advice here if you have engaged solicitors and they've told you you have a very strong case?

Just let them deal with it. I suspect they'd also advise you not to go around accusing the business of being fake or fraudulent on the world wide web, especially when you've given enough personal information to make it pretty obvious who you are.  You might find you're not the only party to engage solicitors. 

And maybe 'washing your dirty linen in public' may possibly (?) prejudice your case perhaps?

Or perhaps expose Ellesmere College for how they go about making false statements to recruit students, and if nothing comes of our case at least this post highlights to other parents not to believe what you are told when considering this school. 

That's not sensible at this stage because a) they're just allegations and b) J_B is correct in that it may prejudice your case.

By all means highlight to other parents after your case is settled in your favour, but doing so now is daft.

Not sure I agree, because I don’t want anyone else making the same mistakes we did. 

Let me share something else..... they already tried to settle this issue in January this year when the Headmaster admitted they made a mistake, they offered to contribute £1000 a term to find someone suitable for coaching, however haven’t actually found anyone in 5 months hence why we are here. 

Anyway I’ll be sure to return when this matter reaches a conclusion 

What are you actually hoping to achieve?  To warn prospective parents off this college?  Get a refund or reduction in fees?  Recover the £60k you lost on your house move?  Get your son the coaching and support you claim was promised?

If it's the latter (and I presume it is with everything you've got invested in this - your son's time; loss on house move etc) then I'd have to question whether suing them, or threatening to sue them, or publicising their failings on here is a particularly good move - from your son's point of view.  Surely to get the best from this coaching relationship there needs to be two-way 100% trust between the college on the one hand and you and your son on the other?  I don't see how you can recover that to your son's advantage when you are so upset at the way you see you've been treated by the college, and if you may end up taking legal action against them.  Whatever coaching relationship you hoped for seems to have broken down.  Irrespective of anything the college may tell you - they just want your money!

You say your son's coaching programme was drawn up by the PGA (or at least PGA professionals) but that Ellesmere College rather than the PGA will deliver it.  Is there a particular reason for that?  It seems odd to me that a particular pro would draw up a programme for somebody else to deliver.  Did the PGA recommend this approach for some reason?  Why couldn't the pros who authored the programme deliver it?  Did they recommend Ellesmere college?

(I'll look at the documentary you mention as this question of coaching at an early age does interest me).

Manxman_in_exile

Also, how can you possibly tell at the age of ten that your son "isn't academic" and would rather play sport?  Of course he would - he's ten!

When I was ten, I know that I was definitely thought to be the thicko of the three children.  I hadn't learned the alphabet and my "times tables" were sketchy to say the least.  Even today, after the six times table I have to stop and think.  Ask me 6 x 8 and I'll say 48 immediately.  Ask me 7 x 8 and I have to think "Er... seven is one more than six, so... if I take 48 and add on eight...that should be it... shouldn't it?  Better check that again... hmmm..."   Yet I ended up with much better academic achievements than my older brother and sister (who were high academic achievers themselves).  In fact most people who know me would say I was too academic by half.

Ironically, most of my working career was spent manipulating numbers - although unlike many of my colleagues i always used a calculator for even the simplest calculations.

What I'm trying to say is... ten seems to be a bit early to decide your son isn't academic and to hothouse him on the route to a pro golf career.  Of course that's what he wants now - he's got no experience of the real world.

But then - that's none of my business and not why you're here...

J_B

Manxman_in_exile said:

Also, how can you possibly tell at the age of ten that your son "isn't academic" and would rather play sport?  Of course he would - he's ten!

At ten, I wanted to be a professional footballer, so my parents sent me to a boarding school (near Ellesmere!) where they only played rugby.

At fifteen, I wanted to be a rock and roll star ... hmm

At twenty, I wanted to be a farmer .... result - life choice finally concluded!  🤣

Manxman_in_exile

Having looked The Short Game up on wiki I don't think that watching a documentary about 7 and 8 year olds playing in the US Kids Golf World Championship and the levels of determination and sacrifices they need to make to reach the top will make me feel any happier about this.

Admittedly the film is well received as a film and the critics generally liked it (as a documentary) but phrases from the Critical Commentary section like "... Greenbaum's feature film debut was compelling although tinged with discomfort..." make me think I might not enjoy it.

Manxman_in_exile

J_B said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Also, how can you possibly tell at the age of ten that your son "isn't academic" and would rather play sport?  Of course he would - he's ten!

At ten, I wanted to be a professional footballer, so my parents sent me to a boarding school (near Ellesmere!) where they only played rugby.

  🤣

And your parents did the right thing, didn't they?

(Face it - you'd never have been happy as a footballer anyway - think of the money.  Farming is a proper job with proper rewards!)

=========================================================

I think I'd better remove myself from this thread now.

EllesmereCollege_fake

Manxman_in_exile said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

EllesmereCollege_fake said:

J_B said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Why are you seeking advice here if you have engaged solicitors and they've told you you have a very strong case?

Just let them deal with it. I suspect they'd also advise you not to go around accusing the business of being fake or fraudulent on the world wide web, especially when you've given enough personal information to make it pretty obvious who you are.  You might find you're not the only party to engage solicitors. 

And maybe 'washing your dirty linen in public' may possibly (?) prejudice your case perhaps?

Or perhaps expose Ellesmere College for how they go about making false statements to recruit students, and if nothing comes of our case at least this post highlights to other parents not to believe what you are told when considering this school. 

That's not sensible at this stage because a) they're just allegations and b) J_B is correct in that it may prejudice your case.

By all means highlight to other parents after your case is settled in your favour, but doing so now is daft.

Not sure I agree, because I don’t want anyone else making the same mistakes we did. 

Let me share something else..... they already tried to settle this issue in January this year when the Headmaster admitted they made a mistake, they offered to contribute £1000 a term to find someone suitable for coaching, however haven’t actually found anyone in 5 months hence why we are here. 

Anyway I’ll be sure to return when this matter reaches a conclusion 

What are you actually hoping to achieve?  To warn prospective parents off this college?  Get a refund or reduction in fees?  Recover the £60k you lost on your house move?  Get your son the coaching and support you claim was promised?

If it's the latter (and I presume it is with everything you've got invested in this - your son's time; loss on house move etc) then I'd have to question whether suing them, or threatening to sue them, or publicising their failings on here is a particularly good move - from your son's point of view.  Surely to get the best from this coaching relationship there needs to be two-way 100% trust between the college on the one hand and you and your son on the other?  I don't see how you can recover that to your son's advantage when you are so upset at the way you see you've been treated by the college, and if you may end up taking legal action against them.  Whatever coaching relationship you hoped for seems to have broken down.  Irrespective of anything the college may tell you - they just want your money!

You say your son's coaching programme was drawn up by the PGA (or at least PGA professionals) but that Ellesmere College rather than the PGA will deliver it.  Is there a particular reason for that?  It seems odd to me that a particular pro would draw up a programme for somebody else to deliver.  Did the PGA recommend this approach for some reason?  Why couldn't the pros who authored the programme deliver it?  Did they recommend Ellesmere college?

(I'll look at the documentary you mention as this question of coaching at an early age does interest me).

This forum thread was the last resort for us. You are completely right that a coaching / working relationship is built on trust however given it’s now June 2020 and this situation all started in September 2019 don’t you think we’ve tried to work with Ellesmere College for the best part of a year.....

- they admitted they shouldn’t have agreed to delivering his coaching programme
- they’ve agreed they don’t have anyone in house to do this
- they have offered to pay a bursary each term to pay for a staff member to deliver his program.....


however is the key issue despite offering all this since January they haven’t been able to find anyone to do the coaching so where does that leave us as a family? Running round like headless chickens trying to support his programme.

agree or disagree with The Short Game, what you see in that video is an insight in what goes on for elite golfers trying to make it the top. The chances of my son making it are pretty slim but when the sport of golf is seeing more and more youngsters achieve success very early on on both the major Tours this is what you are up against, and is a common trend worldwide for all elite junior golfers.

please don’t think for one second we are naive enough to think he will make it, ive actually got a MSC in sports psychology and worked inside football academies so I know how this works and how low the success rate is

you asked why did he bring his own programme? Not wanting to disrespect any PGA professional, there is a huge gulf between quality of the local club pro against elite coaches. The programme that was designed included the input from European Tour coach and based on the framework of elite golf from England Golf for performance, the person who was running the golf academy at Ellesmere doesn’t come from this background and I’m not saying he doesn’t have the skills to deliver a program however the only attraction to ellesmere college golf Academy was they the school committed to delivering a programme that was designed by this countries elite golf coaches.

we spent considerable time working with the school discussing how this could be delivered in practice and they stated on a number of occasions they could do it - however when we got there they couldn’t. We feel we have been completely missold and we have started to look at other schools and guess what - the other schools we’ve looked at have all made it very clear they can’t support this type of program - so the question is very simply..... why did Ellesmere college say they could?

we all know the answer to that - they wanted our money and was prepared to say wherever was required to get it. 

We also fully believe he needs an education and even though this might look all he does is play sport he also does all his school work and will continue to do this until he has qualifications to fall back on.