Advice on getting a refund on a cancelled event – Tony Robbins Unleash the power course

Emanef

Hi all
I’m after advice for a friend. He booked to go onto a kind of ‘personal improvement’ type course last year, with the course due to go ahead in Birmingham at the end of May (2020). Due to the Covid 19 situation the course has had to be cancelled, and the organisers have set up a new course in October 2020. 

Like a lot of people, the covid 19 situation has left my friend struggling financially when he usually may not be and as the May course has been cancelled he wants to get her money back from the cancelled course. He can no longer afford to do the re-arranged course and the re-arranged dates are no longer suitable; it’s going to take a long time to recover the lost income and there’s no knowing how long this is all going to have an impact. 

The course is really expensive, something like a couple of grand for three or four days, and it’s a lot of money that would help him to have back given the current situation. It is a “Tony Robbins Unleash the power course” that looks like it’s run by something called the “Brilliance Academy” (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/o/brilliance-academy-976857469)

He’s contacted the organisers to get a refund, but they are not wanting to give him a refund and say he can go on the next course or go on one in 2021. He has clearly advised them that the rearranged courses do not suit him and he would just like his money back, but they just keep skirting around his request. He flatly asked them to confirm yes or no if he could have a refund and they still refuse to answer the question. 

The advice we are after is where does he stand legally? There are ridiculous terms and conditions on their website for cancelled which there is a 100% money back guarantee but you have to actually attend the course in full and they ask for a refund at the end, at the event (at which time I imagine you would have to jump through hoops to get anywhere!) but he cannot attend as his reasons for wanting it back would not be because he was not satisfied with the course after completing it. 

What weight do terms and conditions people write on a website have over UK laws and rights in these sort of situations? Anyone can write whatever T&Cs they want, but presumably UK consumer laws would apply and it be viewed as any other event? 

Is anyone able to give us some advice please? Are there any UK laws, etc that we need to quote? We’ve found advice on Which about events in general and on postponed event it says that if you’re unable to attend the rescheduled date you can claim a refund of the ticket’s face-value price. 

Many thanks in advance

Jeremy535897

The CMA has issued advice here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cma-to-investigate-concerns-about-cancellation-policies-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic/the-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-consumer-contracts-cancellation-and-refunds

One issue might be whether it is a consumer contract at all. See definition (part of section 2 Consumer Rights Act 2015):

"2 Key definitions

(1)These definitions apply in this Part (as well as the definitions in section 59).

(2)“Trader” means a person acting for purposes relating to that person’s trade, business, craft or profession, whether acting personally or through another person acting in the trader’s name or on the trader’s behalf.

(3)“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual’s trade, business, craft or profession.

(4)A trader claiming that an individual was not acting for purposes wholly or mainly outside the individual’s trade, business, craft or profession must prove it.

........."

Emanef

Thanks for the quick reply. No, it's not related to his work or trade, it's one of these courses that's supposed to turn you into "a better you" type thing, he was told it would change his life, one of those sort of things.....

JakeMM

How did he pay for it? If it’s with a credit card - he might be able to get a charge back, even if he’s cleared the balance. 

Jeremy535897

Emanef said:

Thanks for the quick reply. No, it's not related to his work or trade, it's one of these courses that's supposed to turn you into "a better you" type thing, he was told it would change his life, one of those sort of things.....

I suggest he quotes the link I sent, and see what happens. As noted above, here is also the possibility of a charge back (or section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act) if a credit card was used to pay. He may be able to use a charge back if a debit card was paid. Charge backs are subject to varying time limits.

Emanef

Thank you very much, I'll pass on the advice. 

sketching83

Hi Emanef,
Any updates on your friends situation? I'm in a similar boat. I can't make the new date of October and they are refusing a refund. Even my CC company refused a charge back!

adamp87

I think your friends going to find this hard to fight. CAB & Which both state even if you can’t attended the reschedule date you should get a refund.

He/She needs to say that is unacceptable & press further. Who are the tickets purchased through?

Was it Eventbrite? Because they (the company running the event via eventbrite state on the October Tony Robbins that a refund is available up to 30 days before the event. Well it’s well before 30 days...

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/tony-robbins-unleash-the-power-within-upw-birmingham-2020-tickets-60374485712

It is most likely a stalking tactic so they can keep the money and stay afloat.

If it was through ticket factory https://www.theticketfactory.com/tickets/help/coronavirus-faqs/

I don’t find the FAQ to be fair under the refund question considering it doesn’t answer it & just talks about rescheduled dates. 

If you they refuse to refund I’d advise bringing up/screen shottjng the eventbrite page that offers a refund before 30 days of the event - and if they says that’s a different policy for Eventbrite it’s not. Because reading into Eventbrite terms and conditions the refund policy is up to the company running the event - not Eventbrite they are just a mediator inbetween.

sketching83

Thanks Adam
The company is success resources.
Their T&C are here: https://upwuk.com/terms.html
As they haven't technically cancelled and only postponed, they are saying they do not need to refund. The OP and myself can't make the new dates, so this makes things tricky.

I wonder successful is a small claims court claim likely to be?

unholyangel

sketching83 said:

Hi Emanef,
Any updates on your friends situation? I'm in a similar boat. I can't make the new date of October and they are refusing a refund. Even my CC company refused a charge back!

Did they refuse a chargeback or did they refuse a section 75 claim?

A chargeback they are simply asking the merchants bank for your money back. A section 75 claim, you are claiming against your bank under section 75 of the consumer credit act 1974 - which gives the creditor joint & several liability for performance of the contract. Meaning any claim you have against the trader, you have the exact same claim against the creditor. You can choose to chase the trader, the creditor or both (your choice, not theirs). 

If it was chargeback, try telling them specifically you want to make a s75 claim for non-performance of contract. If they then refuse that, open a complaint with the financial ombudsman. 

[Deleted User]

Probably not a bad thing to have missed out on the Tony Robbins experience!:

https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,769,page=1