Money sent in error to wrong sort code

davidmcn

452 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

powerful_Rogue said:

davidmcn said:

shaun_from_Africa said:

Carrot007 said:

I think it is more likely in this case that the recipient is bad with monmey and just spent it and has none to pay back.

The reason doesn't matter, only the fact that the recipient knows they have no entitlement to the money but have not returned it, therefore it is theft

But they need to actually have it at the point it's dishonestly appropriated. They might have already spent it before realising it had been credited in error.

s24A Theft Act - Dishonestly Retaining a Wrongful Credit.

Dishonestly retaining a wrongful credit.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if

(a)a wrongful credit has been made to an account kept by him or in respect ofwhich he has any right or interest;

(b)he knows or believes that the credit is wrongful; and

(c)he dishonestly fails to take such steps as are reasonable in the circumstancesto secure that the credit is cancelled.

According to that it depends on what it is "reasonable in the circumstances" for the recipient to do.  If they can't afford to pay it back...?

I think it's a bit much for criminal liability to originate from somebody wrongly transferring an unsolicited sum of money into your account.

Why, if the recipient acts dishonestly by keeping it what else would you call it?

The point is that we don't know from the information provided that they "acted dishonestly by keeping it". They could have innocently spent it before realising it had been credited in error.

DoaM

You receive a £1,700 windfall and don't question where it came from or why you got it? You just go ahead and spend it?

Naaaaaaah. There's nothing innocent about that (IMHO).

davidmcn

DoaM said:

You receive a £1,700 windfall and don't question where it came from or why you got it? You just go ahead and spend it?

You and I are denizens of this forum so by definition of course we keep a careful watch on our bank account and will spot unexpected transactions. Not everyone does (as we can see from some of the queries here).

And even if you strongly suspect they ought to have realised, try proving it beyond reasonable doubt. £1700 isn't necessarily all that noteworthy an amount - bit different from suddenly getting a million quid and then booking a one way ticket to Brazil with your loot.

452

davidmcn said:

DoaM said:

You receive a £1,700 windfall and don't question where it came from or why you got it? You just go ahead and spend it?

You and I are denizens of this forum so by definition of course we keep a careful watch on our bank account and will spot unexpected transactions. Not everyone does (as we can see from some of the queries here).

And even if you strongly suspect they ought to have realised, try proving it beyond reasonable doubt. £1700 isn't necessarily all that noteworthy an amount - bit different from suddenly getting a million quid and then booking a one way ticket to Brazil with your loot.

You say it's not necessarily all that noteworthy an amount then they shouldn't have a problem paying it back. Yet the claimed they couldn't, what would most think if the test for dishonesty was applied in this case?

stragglebod

If the recipient's account was in debit then the bank would retain the payment against that, so would not be available to repay with no dishonest intent by the recipient.

We simply do not know the recipient's circumstances, especially with Covid making many people's finance extremely unstable.

I am very lucky to be in a position where I could repay that amount if I received it in error; most people are not so fortunate.

Has the mid May payment been made?

Ditzy_Mitzy

The offence is 'retention of a wrongful credit' and is a criminal, rather than civil matter. You can try contacting the police - they will be able to get information from the bank that you, as a private individual, are not entitled to. The police, if minded, can take it to court. The court can order that the money is paid back. The complicating factor is that the recipient of the incorrect credit may not have the money to repay you. If he or she was overdrawn it will have disappeared into a black hole upon being deposited in the account, therefore it's not coming back. The court, as part of making a repayment order, will take the guilty party's (assuming we get that far and will have to for this to happen) finances into consideration and implement a repayment plan. These can be as little as a few pounds a week. You will then need to go back to court if payment under this arrangement ceases at any point. 
I know it's not nothing but it all falls down to how much stomach you've got for pursuing it. I've heard of similar cases where the creditor has simply given up because the money isn't worth the hassle of getting it back. Not great, and sorry to hear you're in this position. 

George_Michael

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

The offence is 'retention of a wrongful credit' and is a criminal, rather than civil matter. 

That's incorrect.
A credit is only classed as "wrongful" if it was made for one of 4 different reasons, them being:
Fraud, blackmail, theft or stolen goods.
Yes, the OP made a mistake by sending the payment to the wrong account but under the theft act, it doesn't qualify as a wrongful credit as it was made willingly and was a legal payment.

Ditzy_Mitzy

George_Michael said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

The offence is 'retention of a wrongful credit' and is a criminal, rather than civil matter. 

That's incorrect.
A credit is only classed as "wrongful" if it was made for one of 4 different reasons, them being:
Fraud, blackmail, theft or stolen goods.
Yes, the OP made a mistake by sending the payment to the wrong account but under the theft act, it doesn't qualify as a wrongful credit as it was made willingly and was a legal payment.

Fair enough - but it's still theft. 

Ditzy_Mitzy

George_Michael said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

The offence is 'retention of a wrongful credit' and is a criminal, rather than civil matter. 

That's incorrect.
A credit is only classed as "wrongful" if it was made for one of 4 different reasons, them being:
Fraud, blackmail, theft or stolen goods.
Yes, the OP made a mistake by sending the payment to the wrong account but under the theft act, it doesn't qualify as a wrongful credit as it was made willingly and was a legal payment.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/62/section/2
Sorry - I've had a read through, it's an either/or scenario. The offence is either retaining money paid into the account in error or retaining money dervied from the proceeds of the crimes noted. I assume the latter is to make provision for electronic cash payments that otherwise would not be covered by handling stolen goods offences. Anyway, the first part is the relevant bit in this scenario - the recipient of the credit, knowing he has no interest in it, can't keep it. 

George_Michael

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/62/section/2
Sorry - I've had a read through, it's an either/or scenario. The offence is either retaining money paid into the account in error or retaining money dervied from the proceeds of the crimes noted. I assume the latter is to make provision for electronic cash payments that otherwise would not be covered by handling stolen goods offences. Anyway, the first part is the relevant bit in this scenario - the recipient of the credit, knowing he has no interest in it, can't keep it. 

I might be missing it but I can't see any mention of money being paid into an account in error in S24/24A of the act.
This is how the CPS define a Wrongful credit"
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/theft-act-offences

Retention Of A Wrongful Credit

Elements

This offence is created by section 24A of the 1968 Act and consists in dishonestly failing to take reasonable steps to cancel a credit of money to any account the defendant keeps or has any control over when they know or (correctly) believe that the credit made is wrongful.

Wrongful

A credit is wrongful if it derives from theft, blackmail, fraud or stolen goods.