What is the architect planning process for extension?

tallac

I'm wanting to get a property extension done. From what I understand, the process is something like this:

1. Instruct an architect to do the plans/drawings for the extension (according to my desires).
2. Once the plans are agreed, the architect will then submit the plans for local approval and planning permission (I'm a little confused about this, see question 1 below).
3. Planning permission usually takes 6 to 8 weeks.
4. Once planning permission is obtained and assuming no issues, I then have everything I need to allow builders to give me quotations that I can compare against other builders.

Is the above understanding correct or did I misunderstand something? Anything crucial missing?

Questions:

1. What approvals/permissions will be required? Planning permission will be certain but I've heard other terms such as build over agreements and Lawful Development Certificate? Are there any others?
2. At what point does a structural engineer come into play? 
3. Who's responsibility is it to make sure the plans are signed off by a structural engineer. Is the architect required to subcontract this work or will it fall on me to have it checked?
4. Does the architect or structural engineer provide any guarantee that what they have planned will be structurally sound? Is there any recourse should something be identified later down the road that could have reasonably been foreseen by them?
5. Someone advised me to be careful about structural engineers as some architects will use ones that are based outside of the UK. They will do their structural engineering task remotely using photos and floor plans. This is less than ideal as they do not do a site visit in person and the task is of inferior quality due to this. Is doing this remotely common practice? And does it generally lead to inferior quality of work?
6. Having a local architect is obviously beneficial as they can come on site as needed. Is there a benefit from the structural engineer being local too? Will they need to do site visits during the building phase?

Thanks for the help in advance.

-taff

If your extension falls within permitted development you won't need planning permission. You will need building control though who will chek you've adhered to safe building during the build.

I expect there will be more lengthy and detailed replies soon

DOH_a

1. Some extensions to dwellings can be carried out under Permitted Development and therefore not requiring the submission of a formal Planning application. While applicants have the choice of bypassing the Planning process completely and proceed straight to Building Regulations, the majority do like to have the PD situation confirmed, which is done via a Certificate of Lawfulness application (also referred to as a Lawful Development Certificate) application. This application is submitted to the LPA along with drawings and a fee, similarly to the requirements for a formal Planning application. Your architect/technologist/technician should be able to check along with advise if the proposals would constitute PD. Once you have dealt with the Planning stage, Building Regulations comes next and that is where the Build Over Agreements come into play but only where you are building over or within 3m of a public sewer.
2. A structural engineer would normally come post Planning and prior to the preparation of the Building Regulation drawings. The engineer would review the Planning/proposed drawings, produce a quote and if acceptable, proceed with making sure the extension is structurally sound.
3. The architect/technologist/technician should take the lead role and ensure the engineers' details/calculations work with the proposals. You wouldn't expect your "normal" client to be aware of the co-ordination element hence why you'd ask and make sure somebody else does this for you.
4. You should look to make sure both your architect/technologist/technician and structural engineer hold the relevant qualifications and insurances. As these would come with chartered consultants, you will pay the price to have that. There are many other individuals who are more than capable of carrying out a similar service but may not have the backing should something go wrong. During the build, the Building Control Officer would carry out regular inspections and sign off each stage as you go by. All being well, the BCO will issue a Completion Certificate at the end of the works.
5. I work with three engineers and depending on the scale of the proposals, would make the judgement as to whether I think a site visit would be of any benefit. For a simple extension, a visit isn't crucial but for works that are more involved, then a visit could iron out some issues sooner rather than later. So it's not crucial for an engineer to be local or even in the UK for that matter but providing their work is covered/insured and they are approachable should there by any queries prior, during or post the works, then that should be fine.
6. I've kind of covered this above. My engineers would not normally visit site but can do if requested and if there was to be an issue on site. The majority of the time, issues can be resolved over the phone/email and with photos. Not to mention the BCO is also on hand should there by any on site technical queries.

A good architect/technologist/technician should be able to take care of all the above for you.

Doozergirl

I think it is very important for the structural engineer to visit site.   You think things are going to be simple, but they sometimes aren't, because you're working on an existing property with its own quirks.  

I have a project currently.  The house was extended and renovated for sale prior to my client purchasing it.  It was only signed off by building control last year...  We're making alterations, one of which is opening up the back for bifold doors.   

I'm experienced enough to know when something is bothering me but a lot of people won't be, and without a site visit, something incredibly dangerous could have been missed.  

In this house, an the entire original back of a three storey house is sitting on a single skin of brick and a 9 inch wall on the other side, with two other massive steels bolted in. It's not even fit for current purpose, let alone the additional work our client wants.  We could have brought half the entire house crashing down, and it's not a small one!    God only knows how building control passed it.  😡

tallac

Thanks for the information. I guess what I'm not understanding is who's responsibility is it to get a structural engineer in? I'm the home owner and I'll be getting an architect in to do the plans and designs. Do I ask the architect to get a structural engineer to check things? Do I separately task a structural engineer to check things and liaise with the architect? As the home owner, I'm not sure what the process would be.

theonlywayisup

tallac said:

Thanks for the information. I guess what I'm not understanding is who's responsibility is it to get a structural engineer in? I'm the home owner and I'll be getting an architect in to do the plans and designs. Do I ask the architect to get a structural engineer to check things? Do I separately task a structural engineer to check things and liaise with the architect? As the home owner, I'm not sure what the process would be.

Think of it a bit like having a builder in. You can either get the builder to do everything (he will subcontract out those works he isn't qualified to do) or you can have the various trades to do their jobs when you tell them to come and do them. 

You don't need to employ an architect but if helps if you have little experience.  You can opt to get your architect to engage a structural engineer or you can do it yourself, or perhaps think about having a project manager.  All things come with a cost associated so you should perhaps get some quotes for their services and go from there. 

DOH_a

tallac said:

Thanks for the information. I guess what I'm not understanding is who's responsibility is it to get a structural engineer in? I'm the home owner and I'll be getting an architect in to do the plans and designs. Do I ask the architect to get a structural engineer to check things? Do I separately task a structural engineer to check things and liaise with the architect? As the home owner, I'm not sure what the process would be.

When you start speaking to the architect/designer, ask them who would deal with the structural side of things. They should either suggest you look for one and instruct direct or they may recommend an engineer they’ve used in the past. If an architect and engineer have past experience working together, this does make things a little easier.

tallac

Thanks again for everyone's advice.
On a related note: I've found a company that says they can do all the work for the home renovation including the architect, structural engineer, builders etc. They completely oversee the whole project from start to finish. They have said that they can get their architect/structural engineer to do the plans and put them towards all the necessary planning application and approval process. While that happens (i.e. 6 to 8 weeks for approval) they can make a start on the other aspects of the house that do not require planning permission. This all sounds initially great but the few concerns I have are:

1. I'd like to get a range of builder quotes once I've gotten the plans finalised. Generally speaking, will builders give proper calculated quotes based of architect plans that are yet to be approved or will they only do this upon the plans being approved?
2. If I can only get builder quotes upon plans that are approved, then any advice on how I can best utilise the 6 to 8 weeks, without taking on too much risk? E.g. the company doing the work during the 6 to 8 weeks may not be the one doing the renovation work once the plans are approved. I'm thinking maybe the task of ripping out things and getting ready for the renovation might fill up the 6 to 8 week period and wouldn't be an issue if a different company does the renovation.
3. If I'm keen to use this one stop shop company to do everything, then I'd like to use their recommended architect as this would make things more seamless as they have prior experience working with them. However, if I use their architect then I still want to get quotes from other builds to check that the price I'm quoted by the one stop shop company is competitive. Is it cheeky to ask to use their architect so that I can get quotes from other builders and only carry on with them if I find their quote is competitive? Alternatively, if I go with my own architect, then get quotes and then want to go with the one stop shop company, then I'm now in a situation where they will be doing the rest of the work based on their non-preferred architect which could lead to issues. Any suggestions on how I deal with this?

And a final question which is a bit separate. As I understand, when planning permission is granted, you have a 3 year period to start work before the permission expires. However, once the work has started then the expiry is effectively removed and the permission is open. Is there any restriction to this? What if the planning permission contains multiple things like a loft conversion, side extension, rear extension and a front porch; can someone just start work on the porch and then that means the rest of the extension work is then open without expiry? Or does the expiry apply to each separate bit of work? If it applies separately for each bit of work, is there scope to group some things together?

Thanks again

DOH_a

1. The majority of builders would only be able to quote based on the Building Regulation/working drawings and not the Planning drawings. I'm not sure if you are confusing Planning with Building Regulations even though there is also an approval process with Building Regulations, it's not normally as long as Planning. With a competent architect/designer, you can look to obtain quotes based on their working drawings prior to receiving Building Regulations approval. Or you wait to receive BR approval before obtaining quotes.
2. As mentioned, quotes are normally based on Building Regulation/working drawings and you shouldn't have to wait 8 weeks to receive BR approval. The main thing is the Building Regulation/working drawings are not produced until at least Planning has been secured as it's a lot more difficult to amend BR drawings than it is Planning, which could incur additional costs both from an architect and/or engineer. It's always advisable to wait until you have at least secured Planning approval.
3. You will have to find out as to how their architect is related because they may come under the same company name or could infact be a separate consultant who works for various other design and build companies. I work with a few builders and are their appointed designer. I've had one or two projects in the past where the client has hinted they would like to seek alternative quotes, which is entirely up to them. But as my loyalties are with these particular companies and the job has come to me from them, I'd always make the builders aware of what's going on.

You are right in that Planning approvals are valid for three years meaning you would need to commence the work within those three years. Once works have commenced, there is no expiry limit to finish them. If a Planning approval includes various elements, e.g. extensions, garage conversion, loft conversion then you wouldn't be required to start work on all elements. You would only need to start one of the elements listed on the approval. A start on site normally means Building Control commencement.

If you sought Planning approval for a single storey rear extension, this is the only part Planning would be interested in. They would not be interested in the internal alterations required to access that new extension. In that respect, you could not state removing a wall and inserting a beam as a start on site because those alterations would not require PP and would therefore not implement the approval.

tallac

DOH.a said:

1. The majority of builders would only be able to quote based on the Building Regulation/working drawings and not the Planning drawings. I'm not sure if you are confusing Planning with Building Regulations even though there is also an approval process with Building Regulations, it's not normally as long as Planning. With a competent architect/designer, you can look to obtain quotes based on their working drawings prior to receiving Building Regulations approval. Or you wait to receive BR approval before obtaining quotes.
2. As mentioned, quotes are normally based on Building Regulation/working drawings and you shouldn't have to wait 8 weeks to receive BR approval. The main thing is the Building Regulation/working drawings are not produced until at least Planning has been secured as it's a lot more difficult to amend BR drawings than it is Planning, which could incur additional costs both from an architect and/or engineer. It's always advisable to wait until you have at least secured Planning approval.
3. You will have to find out as to how their architect is related because they may come under the same company name or could infact be a separate consultant who works for various other design and build companies. I work with a few builders and are their appointed designer. I've had one or two projects in the past where the client has hinted they would like to seek alternative quotes, which is entirely up to them. But as my loyalties are with these particular companies and the job has come to me from them, I'd always make the builders aware of what's going on.

You are right in that Planning approvals are valid for three years meaning you would need to commence the work within those three years. Once works have commenced, there is no expiry limit to finish them. If a Planning approval includes various elements, e.g. extensions, garage conversion, loft conversion then you wouldn't be required to start work on all elements. You would only need to start one of the elements listed on the approval. A start on site normally means Building Control commencement.

If you sought Planning approval for a single storey rear extension, this is the only part Planning would be interested in. They would not be interested in the internal alterations required to access that new extension. In that respect, you could not state removing a wall and inserting a beam as a start on site because those alterations would not require PP and would therefore not implement the approval.

Thank you so much for your detailed response. I think I understand now. I did indeed get confused between the planning drawings and the building regulation drawings. I read your post and then watched a few YouTube videos which I think has helped my understanding.

So if a person was intending to get modifications to their house done which required planning permission, could they include a few other things that require planning permission even though they are not intending to do that. The intention is that if they are all submitted under one plan, then starting work on the bits that they intended to do will then mean that the bits they weren't intending to would then be approved without expiry. The intention for this is that they might want to do that work at a much later stage or it might be a cherry on the top for a potential buyer when they come to sell the house as it will have already had planning permission approved for those things. Is that worth considering?

Mickey666

In short, an architect will design something you like.  Planning consent will give you the legal right to build it (consent may be implicit under permitted development rights, but the architect will advise on all that).  Building Control will ensure the design is built safely and is where a structural engineer may be necessary.  The building control inspector will then formally sign off the work, certifying that it complies with all relevant building regulations.  This is an important document when you come to sell the property.

The simplest thing is to engage an architect to manage the entire project from start to finish.  This will cost some extra money but it will mean you don't have to worry about all the questions you've asked.  Your money, your time, your stress, your choice.