Issues with buyer of house

davidmcn

Comms69 said:

eve824 said:

We have a full defence written out and plan to dispute in full. Just haven't submitted it yet. Have several weeks to do so no immediate rush.
House insurance we do have legal cover but it doesn't cover small claims court representation sadly. We are checking with them anyway as the Policy schedule is a little confusing but I am not holding out much hope.
I was just wondering if the court takes a look at both sides and would dismiss the claim if there was no case so as not to waste time?

No courts dont dismiss cases. I can make a claim against you, and if you fail to respond i win and you have to pay me. 

They can and will if it doesn't even look like it could be a legally valid claim. They might be more lenient to party litigants in small claims, but "the house was in unsatisfactory state upon completion" (if that's literally all it says) isn't really a legal basis for a claim.

Comms69

davidmcn said:

Comms69 said:

eve824 said:

We have a full defence written out and plan to dispute in full. Just haven't submitted it yet. Have several weeks to do so no immediate rush.
House insurance we do have legal cover but it doesn't cover small claims court representation sadly. We are checking with them anyway as the Policy schedule is a little confusing but I am not holding out much hope.
I was just wondering if the court takes a look at both sides and would dismiss the claim if there was no case so as not to waste time?

No courts dont dismiss cases. I can make a claim against you, and if you fail to respond i win and you have to pay me. 

They can and will if it doesn't even look like it could be a legally valid claim. They might be more lenient to party litigants in small claims, but "the house was in unsatisfactory state upon completion" (if that's literally all it says) isn't really a legal basis for a claim.

I agree that it can happen, but it's rare; and certainly i dont think it would apply in this scenario anyway. 
Often papers are gathered by admin staff, who wouldnt dream of making that kind of decision. a judge might have a glance in normal circumstances. 

Mojisola

eve824 said:

Cleaned the house on the day of moving, said our teary goodbyes and moved into our lovely new house.

I think it's also worth walking round the empty house and taking photos of each room in case the buyers come back with complaints about its condition.

When my son moved into his rented flat, the LL had a comprehensive photographic record of the flat - they walked round together and my son signed to confirm that the photos were accurate. 

After reading stories about how much buyers behave, I'll do the same when we move on from here.

saajan_12

eve824 said:

Re the rubbish we knowingly left some materials to match those used in the house, spare paint, grout, shutter louvres etc. My defence is, if he didn't want these and regarded them as rubbish then he could have given us the opportunity to collect these from him. Instead he is claiming for his own time to take them to the tip having only told us he was unhappy 2 months later. - he doesn't have to give you time to remedy after, so don't say that. That's not the point though, just say there was no rubbish. Leave it to an actual hearing where he'd have to prove what was left etc. 

Boiler etc was all working fine when we vacated the house. 

We left holes in the walls yes from where we had pictures up. So did the old owners of our new house. We just went round with a £5 pot of filler and dealt with them..! He is claiming £500 to fill some screw holes in the walls. - well if you were meant to fill them and didnt and there was a cost (even £5) to remedy that, they you'd be liable. The buyer doesn't have to DIY it, and then you get into debates about handyman callouts and court fees if you're partially in the wrong. The point is the property was in the same condition as at exchange, your pictures etc were visible if they viewied. 

To be honest I don't want this dragging out, I know I can have another 14 days if I acknowledge it but I'd rather just file my defence and get on with it. I'll wait until the house insurance legal team get back to me. - you can still file the defence within the first 14 days, the acknowledgement jsut takes the pressure off in case there are delays. 

The claim just states that the house was in unsatisfactory state upon completion and he is seeking compensation for the various things, then a breakdown of the items and a cost next to each. There's not a lot of detail on it. He has tried to make us look unreasonable by refusing to give him my address / talk to him (I have never refused to talk to him - he never tried to approach us throughout the sale process everything went through EA and solicitors).

Your replies are too detailed, and open up too much debate. The point you need to make is 
- there was no rubbish (leave the discussion on whether paint samples etc is rubbish, or a gift to the seller for their convenience to the hearing if it happens)
- property condition when you left was in the same condition as at exchange (paintings visible, boiler working, though no warranties were made and buyer could have inspected). 

eve824

Saajan 12 - thanks for your comments. My solicitor did tell me he legally had to give us opportunity to collect items before he disposed of them, so just going on what she said on that one. 

Were we meant to fill the holes? Yes of course the buyer could see we had shelves and pictures up on the walls.

We have photographic evidence of all rooms taken about 30 minutes before we vacated showing them clean and tidy, hoovered etc. Bathrooms sparkling clean.

I am not planning on ignoring the claim - I will be putting my defence in and going to court if need be. I just am not clear on the process and wondered if, once I have filed my defence does it go to anyone to check the legality / validity of the claim before a hearing date is set.

Comms69

eve824 said:

Saajan 12 - thanks for your comments. My solicitor did tell me he legally had to give us opportunity to collect items before he disposed of them, so just going on what she said on that one. 

Were we meant to fill the holes? Yes of course the buyer could see we had shelves and pictures up on the walls.

We have photographic evidence of all rooms taken about 30 minutes before we vacated showing them clean and tidy, hoovered etc. Bathrooms sparkling clean.

I am not planning on ignoring the claim - I will be putting my defence in and going to court if need be. I just am not clear on the process and wondered if, once I have filed my defence does it go to anyone to check the legality / validity of the claim before a hearing date is set.

I know that there's some disagreement. But no-one is going to check the validity of the claim in the sense that you mean. IE read the papers and decide the outcome. There are some checks to make that the claim has some legal standing. This one clearly does, so it will go ahead on that basis. 

Your defence is sent to the court and to the claimant. And the claim is likewise sent to the court and to you. 

eve824

Comms69 said:

eve824 said:

Saajan 12 - thanks for your comments. My solicitor did tell me he legally had to give us opportunity to collect items before he disposed of them, so just going on what she said on that one. 

Were we meant to fill the holes? Yes of course the buyer could see we had shelves and pictures up on the walls.

We have photographic evidence of all rooms taken about 30 minutes before we vacated showing them clean and tidy, hoovered etc. Bathrooms sparkling clean.

I am not planning on ignoring the claim - I will be putting my defence in and going to court if need be. I just am not clear on the process and wondered if, once I have filed my defence does it go to anyone to check the legality / validity of the claim before a hearing date is set.

I know that there's some disagreement. But no-one is going to check the validity of the claim in the sense that you mean. IE read the papers and decide the outcome. There are some checks to make that the claim has some legal standing. This one clearly does, so it will go ahead on that basis. 

Your defence is sent to the court and to the claimant. And the claim is likewise sent to the court and to you. 

Can I ask why you say that? Only my conveyancing solicitor told me otherwise when the claim first came in.

Comms69

eve824 said:

Comms69 said:

eve824 said:

Saajan 12 - thanks for your comments. My solicitor did tell me he legally had to give us opportunity to collect items before he disposed of them, so just going on what she said on that one. 

Were we meant to fill the holes? Yes of course the buyer could see we had shelves and pictures up on the walls.

We have photographic evidence of all rooms taken about 30 minutes before we vacated showing them clean and tidy, hoovered etc. Bathrooms sparkling clean.

I am not planning on ignoring the claim - I will be putting my defence in and going to court if need be. I just am not clear on the process and wondered if, once I have filed my defence does it go to anyone to check the legality / validity of the claim before a hearing date is set.

I know that there's some disagreement. But no-one is going to check the validity of the claim in the sense that you mean. IE read the papers and decide the outcome. There are some checks to make that the claim has some legal standing. This one clearly does, so it will go ahead on that basis. 

Your defence is sent to the court and to the claimant. And the claim is likewise sent to the court and to you. 

Can I ask why you say that? Only my conveyancing solicitor told me otherwise when the claim first came in.

Because for a claim to have legal basis it in effect needs to have some form of law, either statutory or common / case law behind it. 

The claim is that you left rubbish behind when you vacated the property; and as a result the buyer incurred costs. 

That is a valid claim. Doesn't mean it's going to be a successful claim. 

Like lets say someone hit my car, and i thought it was you, so i take you to court for the repair costs. the claim is valid, IE i have suffered a loss, and believe you to be the responsible party. But the claim might fail, because you show proof that you were in Scotland on the date in question. (to keep it simple).

Similarly here, you would use the defence of caveat emptor - as in buyer beware, the house was in the same condition at exchange and completion. 

saajan_12

eve824 said:

Comms69 said:

I know that there's some disagreement. But no-one is going to check the validity of the claim in the sense that you mean. IE read the papers and decide the outcome. There are some checks to make that the claim has some legal standing. This one clearly does, so it will go ahead on that basis. 

Your defence is sent to the court and to the claimant. And the claim is likewise sent to the court and to you. 

Can I ask why you say that? Only my conveyancing solicitor told me otherwise when the claim first came in.

Your solicitor is saying the buyer doesn't have a winnable case. On detailed evaluation of the full details, and the buyer's proof (or lack thereof) showing the damages at completion, not there at exchange, and the exact costs to remedy these, the judge would likely not rule in the buyer's favour. 

However at a first pass, it is feasible for the claimant to have some case. They bought a property, so if the property wasn't left in the correct condition, they could suffer damages. If your defence was "I never sold the property" then perhaps the claimant wouldn't have standing, but here they do. 

eidand

Mojisola said:

eve824 said:

Cleaned the house on the day of moving, said our teary goodbyes and moved into our lovely new house.

I think it's also worth walking round the empty house and taking photos of each room in case the buyers come back with complaints about its condition.

When my son moved into his rented flat, the LL had a comprehensive photographic record of the flat - they walked round together and my son signed to confirm that the photos were accurate. 

After reading stories about how much buyers behave, I'll do the same when we move on from here.

Yup, I will be doing the same thing.