[Legal Action] - Set aside judgement - Major car dealership.

lace99

AdrianC said:

 lace99 said:
I never rejected the car. I asked for the dealership to put the issues right with the car and/or offer compensation. These issues are as follows:
- Bodywork damage
- The mileage on the odometer was significantly higher than what I purchased the car at, and which was on the sale documentation.
- The car has 2 former owners, when the sale advert specifically said "1 owner car". Not 1 previous owner, but specifically 1 owner. I have proof of this.

They stated the first two issues came about whilst the car was being driven to me for delivery. The point is, I never consented for them (either through contract or verbally) to ever physically drive my car for delivery. It was implied that the car would be delivered on the back of a truck, as they normally are.

In no particular order...

No, used cars are not "normally" delivered by truck. They are very, very commonly driven. How far away from the supplying dealer are you, and how many extra miles are we talking about? In the absence of specific assurances - and most likely you agreeing to pay the extra cost - I would not be expecting it to be delivered by truck, especially if you are a non-trivial distance from the dealership.

How much do you think the value of the car is impacted by from having one extra keeper recorded and that difference in mileage? Because that - at the outside - is what you're due.

It's entirely possible the number of documented keepers and "number of owners" are consistent. One person may have bought it new under a discount scheme that required it to be registered to the dealership for a short period. Or they may have bought it pre-registered. Or it may have been registered to a finance house but remained with them throughout - perhaps a PCP that had it registered to the financier.

As far as the stonechips go, yes, I'd be expecting them to sort that. I presume you physically viewed the car prior to agreeing to purchase it?

The car was driven close to 200 miles. The dealership I bought it from was a long way from me. It was not a trivial distance.

I have no idea, I'll let the Court decide that amount.

When I bought the car, I viewed it and there was absolutely none of this damage on the car. I looked at every panel in meticulous detail. On delivery, these problems were present. The dealership stated that the damage "obviously occurred on the drive over to you" (quoting verbatim here), but that none of the bodywork damage could be rectified as they can't afford to do it. I took it to a reputable bodyshop near me, who then provided me with a quote to repair the damage (just so I know what it'll cost).

born_again

lace99 said:

k3lvc said:

Given this is now 'months' ago and you're still using the car I suspect you're on a hiding to nothing. What exactly was the 'bodywork damage' ? Was the 'significantly higher' mileage covered by the delivery as they suggest ? And for the 'keepers' you could have checked this pre-purchase.
Are we talking a manufacturer approved used car or a low end car from a car supermarket ?
 

Large stonechips to the bonnet and front bumper. Scuffing to the wing mirror (looks like it hit a white car). Curbing to one of the alloys.

The salesman on the day told me the car was 1 owner, and it specifically states this in the sales advert.

Why not picked up on viewing?

2 owners. Bet 1st is because it was a pre-reg car. Thus it has only really had one owner.

lace99

born_again said:

lace99 said:

k3lvc said:

Given this is now 'months' ago and you're still using the car I suspect you're on a hiding to nothing. What exactly was the 'bodywork damage' ? Was the 'significantly higher' mileage covered by the delivery as they suggest ? And for the 'keepers' you could have checked this pre-purchase.
Are we talking a manufacturer approved used car or a low end car from a car supermarket ?
 

Large stonechips to the bonnet and front bumper. Scuffing to the wing mirror (looks like it hit a white car). Curbing to one of the alloys.

The salesman on the day told me the car was 1 owner, and it specifically states this in the sales advert.

Why not picked up on viewing?

2 owners. Bet 1st is because it was a pre-reg car. Thus it has only really had one owner.

When I purchased the car, the damage was not present.

The car was driven down, close to 200 miles, for delivery. On delivery, the issues were identified, and the paperwork was completed as such, noting the bodywork damage. Attempts at the scene to call the dealership failed. When I got home that day, the salesman was emailed, and he replied the damage was "obviously caused on the drive" for delivery. He refused to put the damage right because it was too expensive.

The car is unlikely to be a pre-registered car. It has a special order paint colour from factory. You rarely see this colour on this car.

George_Michael

452 said:

If you get the defects rectified what compassion do yo think you're due and for what?

If the OP wants a bit of compassion, why not let them have it?

MinuteNoodles

The additional mileage is a hiding to nothing, 200 miles is delivery mileage. In regards to the additional owner, the car may have been sold new as a "pre-registered" car at a discount. This requires the car to be registered which usually means either the manufacturer or the dealership being the first registered keeper. That doesn't mean the car was used by them, merely it had to be registered for accounting reasons to be sold at a discount. The first person to buy it would be the second registered keeper.

You have a claim for the bodywork damage though. That is the seller's responsibility and their problem to recoup the cost from the delivery driver. The problem you have is you have is if you're not going to reject it you have to give them a reasonable opportunity to put it right. In normal times that'd be a fairly straight forward procedure you'd expect to be done in a few weeks but with a long list of non-essential businesses being told to close for the last 8 weeks currently it isn't and when it could be reasonable could be after June when further relaxations are made by the government. Whilst your local bodyshop might have remained open the vast majority haven't, especially those part of dealerships which are closed.

So onto the court action. If you've ever watched an episode of Judge Rinder it's kind of like that without the theatre and in a very drab non-descript boring room usually. You both attend, you present the facts from your side, they present a defence from theirs, a judge comes to a ruling. You state that you bought a car that was sold to you as one previous owner, X mileage, had no damage on and it arrived in Y condition with Y mileage on and had two previous owners, that you've contacted them to try to get it sorted and a monetary value you think that is all worth in compensation. They will put forward their defence which is likely to be that 200 miles is delivery mileage and standard practice to drive it for delivery, they may say that it has only had one owner even though it's had two prior registered keepers as the two are not the same and that because of the current crisis they've been closed so not able to remedy the problem. A judge will then decide whether or not part or all of your claim succeeds and how much up to the amount you're claiming you're due. They may decide against you due to current circumstances if they believe the company will put the damage right after they reopen.

Herzlos

lace99 said:

The car is unlikely to be a pre-registered car. It has a special order paint colour from factory. You rarely see this colour on this car.

Could have been an ex-demo or something then?

What did the HPI say?

What's the car & mileage? How much did you pay?

200 miles is really delivery miles (and if it was driven 200 miles from showroom to you it may have developed the chips). You'd struggle to claim 200 miles had much impact on value unless you thought you were buying one with <100 miles.

Scrapit

200 miles is a days driving. No problem at all.

KimJongUn88

You've never been to Court before and you're quite afraid?  How do you think you'll fare if this matter proceeds to a final trial?  The dealer won't be able to reclaim their costs but they'll probably still send either a solicitor or barrister to defend them.  

With regards the setting judgment aside hearing, yes they might be awarded their costs of and occasioned by the application.  Especially if there was defective service of proceedings.  You mentioned the fact that the dealer is part of a FTSE Top 250 company.  Are you sure you issued against the correct limited company at their registered office?  Have you had sight of the application to set aside?  What does the main body of the application or witness statement say?  What reasons were given for the application to set aside?  Does it sound reasonable?  

AdrianC

lace99 said:

AdrianC said:

 lace99 said:
I never rejected the car. I asked for the dealership to put the issues right with the car and/or offer compensation. These issues are as follows:
- Bodywork damage
- The mileage on the odometer was significantly higher than what I purchased the car at, and which was on the sale documentation.
- The car has 2 former owners, when the sale advert specifically said "1 owner car". Not 1 previous owner, but specifically 1 owner. I have proof of this.

They stated the first two issues came about whilst the car was being driven to me for delivery. The point is, I never consented for them (either through contract or verbally) to ever physically drive my car for delivery. It was implied that the car would be delivered on the back of a truck, as they normally are.

In no particular order...

No, used cars are not "normally" delivered by truck. They are very, very commonly driven. How far away from the supplying dealer are you, and how many extra miles are we talking about? In the absence of specific assurances - and most likely you agreeing to pay the extra cost - I would not be expecting it to be delivered by truck, especially if you are a non-trivial distance from the dealership.

How much do you think the value of the car is impacted by from having one extra keeper recorded and that difference in mileage? Because that - at the outside - is what you're due.

It's entirely possible the number of documented keepers and "number of owners" are consistent. One person may have bought it new under a discount scheme that required it to be registered to the dealership for a short period. Or they may have bought it pre-registered. Or it may have been registered to a finance house but remained with them throughout - perhaps a PCP that had it registered to the financier.

As far as the stonechips go, yes, I'd be expecting them to sort that. I presume you physically viewed the car prior to agreeing to purchase it?

The car was driven close to 200 miles. The dealership I bought it from was a long way from me. It was not a trivial distance.

...about 200 miles away...?

What proportion of the total mileage the vehicle has covered is that?

I have no idea, I'll let the Court decide that amount.

No, you need to put an amount on it. That's what your claim is for.

And that amount needs to be realistic, because winning and winning the amount you claim are not the same thing. You may win, but the court feel that the appropriate amount is only £10.

When I bought the car, I viewed it and there was absolutely none of this damage on the car. I looked at every panel in meticulous detail. On delivery, these problems were present. The dealership stated that the damage "obviously occurred on the drive over to you" (quoting verbatim here), but that none of the bodywork damage could be rectified as they can't afford to do it. I took it to a reputable bodyshop near me, who then provided me with a quote to repair the damage (just so I know what it'll cost).

If they are refusing in writing to do the work, then get it done and claim the cost from them.

"Can't afford to" means "But it'd make this sale unprofitable for us". Boo. Hoo.
OTOH, if "Can't afford to" means "We have no money to", then claiming is academic, because they're going south.

fred246

Good for you lace99. You have taken them on and won. A car with more previous owners is worth less than a car with less previous owners. A car with a higher mileage is worth less than a car with lower mileage. A car delivered with damage needs to be sorted by the seller. They were dishonest. They refused to sort the problem out. They ignored you. They hoped you would just go away. They thought you would just go away like most people do. They had the opportunity to defend the claim but were too lazy or incompetent or couldn't be bothered. Judges are normal human beings. They know that second hand car dealers will do anything, say anything to get a sale. They are one of the most famous dodgy dealers. So you should be awarded money to go and get the car fixed because they were given ample opportunity but wouldn't. I am not sure how to quantify the mileage and previous owners loss. Your claim will now be with someone in their legal department. It wouldn't surprise me if you got a phone call or letter trying to get you to settle out of court. "You haven't got a leg to stand on in court. Will you take £50 to go away". That happened to me once. I just said "No, I will see you in court". I got a cheque for full payment a couple of days later. They have lost and are trying to reduce the claim. It will cost them to go to court. They will have to think it's worth it to go. All that could happen is your claim will be reduced if the judge thinks you have over claimed.