Postponed training - refused to cancel and refund - Section 75

Life__Goes__On

https://www.himalayanyogainstitute.com/terms-conditions/
I had a read and nothing about changing date or venue  are in their T&Cs  it is on their website but  under "cancellation policy" but should be in their T&Cs

So looks like it's either

8.2.5.1.2 Due to teacher cancellations, low bookings or other situations outside our control some courses may be temporarily or permanently unavailable. We reserve the right to make any changes to our program, courses or teachers. Alternative arrangements are offered to the best of our ability but, if not taken up, we do not accept responsibility for any costs incurred, including airfare.

Clearly states "are offered " & "if not taken up"  that will show  that while they can offer you can refuse (not taken up)

Or
7 Cancellation of bookings by us
7.3 If we cancel a contract under these terms and conditions in accordance with this Section 7, you will be entitled to a full refund of the price paid under that contract.

Clearly shows you are due a full refund

You might want to submit something like this to your card company, to backup your case that they cancelled and are due a full refund under their T&Cs

eskbanker

Personally I'm still not convinced it's as black and white as suggested:

Life__Goes__On said:

https://www.himalayanyogainstitute.com/terms-conditions/
I had a read and nothing about changing date or venue  are in their T&Cs  it is on their website but  under "cancellation policy" but should be in their T&Cs

"Changes to the course location and dates may apply in case of necessity" is stated on the above page (with its self-explanatory URL), the entirety of which is titled "Terms & Conditions" in a massive header!  Granted it's not reiterated in the numbered clauses but I think it would be something of a stretch to have to try to rely on that.

Life__Goes__On said:

8.2.5.1.2 Due to teacher cancellations, low bookings or other situations outside our control some courses may be temporarily or permanently unavailable. We reserve the right to make any changes to our program, courses or teachers. Alternative arrangements are offered to the best of our ability but, if not taken up, we do not accept responsibility for any costs incurred, including airfare.

Clearly states "are offered " & "if not taken up"  that will show  that while they can offer you can refuse (not taken up)

They obviously can't force customers to accept such alternatives but if you're interpreting customer refusal as signifying automatic entitlement to a refund then I'd have to say that to me this isn't a conclusion clearly supported by this text.

Life__Goes__On said:

7 Cancellation of bookings by us
7.3 If we cancel a contract under these terms and conditions in accordance with this Section 7, you will be entitled to a full refund of the price paid under that contract.

Clearly shows you are due a full refund

Again this seems open to interpretation - they could claim that their postponement doesn't equate to them cancelling a contract as such, i.e. they're just delaying its implementation, due to matters beyond their control.  OP effectively conceded this point on here yesterday ("the company did not cancel the service, but they just postponed it").  Not sure if the inconsistency between 'booking' and 'contract' helps or hinders either side here....


I'm not trying to pick a fight here by the way, and to a certain extent these comments are just a bit of devil's advocacy, but I'm just highlighting that IMHO there are interpretations of the Ts & Cs that support the company's viewpoint rather than the customer's, so it's not clear to me that there's an indisputable case for a refund.  Who knows which way a card company or a court would see it....?

digalumps

 my reading of the above is that the company could change dates and so on but it is up to the customer to accept or not, the only proviso being if the customer decides to ask for their money back because of the change then clearly the yoga company will not reimburse consequential losses such as airfares etc

 I am also not trying to pick a fight, especially with eskbanker - I know I would lose!

aniseymenova

They can make changes of course, but the customer should be able not to agree on that. Moreover this is a 17 days training spread in a month, it is not one day event or concert. 

I was also reading the terms and conditions and couldn’t find anything in their defense. 

But my claim is about undelivered service and they did not delivered. Now they may want to postpone the training to summer 2021 but how is this fair? 

They said that they could not do the training “due to higher power, not Their fault”. So the same must be valid about me, right? If they can change the conditions of the offer I may not agree with that new offer, because that’s not the service I bought in the first place. 

The first time she wanted to do the training entirely online and although I said no, because I don’t have the right conditions at home and not enough space and she replied back “ We don’t offer a refund because we are delivering” 
It is not like I have a yoga studio at home to do 10 hours of yoga a day uninterrupted. Plus I don’t like the idea of online training.  

We are adults and we should value our time, we all have responsibilities. I am not a kid waiting to be called back to school.

Thank you so much for everyone’s help and time. Much appreciated!  

aniseymenova

digalumps said:

 my reading of the above is that the company could change dates and so on but it is up to the customer to accept or not, the only proviso being if the customer decides to ask for their money back because of the change then clearly the yoga company will not reimburse consequential losses such as airfares etc

 I am also not trying to pick a fight, especially with eskbanker - I know I would lose!

I agree with you. Life__Goes__On mentioned it before as well, these terms and conditions are so the customer cannot claim any indirect expenses. 

Life__Goes__On

A different look is always good,  as never any harm in  having a choice of views.

I can understate certain events there could be delays, especially weather related events, but I don't see why it would apply here.

I thought more about it, it involves accommodation, food and training.
Hotels and such are being forced to refund customers for cancelled bookings,if the customer doesn't want either a voucher or new dates. If there was a legal workaround that they could hold on to the money, without a cash refund  I think many would be doing it.
(I've read some are trying,  but are failing because of the "non-supply of service")
The accommodation, is a major part of the contract, I can't see why it could be treated in a so different  to stop a cash refund.

 

born_again

aniseymenova said:

I told them that I have contacted the credit card company and that I am happy to take the full refund from them and cancelling the dispute. Now they offered me two other option 1)transfer of fees to any other training in 2020/2021 and 2) a reduced price of £1500 if I take an online training and one week intensive live.
I don’t want any Of these offers, especially after all the time that I lost and how unprofessionally they acted.
Can I just ignore that and not do any further communication with them? 

Just a heads up.
Once a dispute (chargeback) is started your card provider can not stop it. Only the retailer can reject it. 
S75 is a different matter as unless your card provider contacts them, and no reason to in this case. Retailer will be none the wiser.

aniseymenova

born_again said:

aniseymenova said:

I told them that I have contacted the credit card company and that I am happy to take the full refund from them and cancelling the dispute. Now they offered me two other option 1)transfer of fees to any other training in 2020/2021 and 2) a reduced price of £1500 if I take an online training and one week intensive live.
I don’t want any Of these offers, especially after all the time that I lost and how unprofessionally they acted.
Can I just ignore that and not do any further communication with them? 

Just a heads up.
Once a dispute (chargeback) is started your card provider can not stop it. Only the retailer can reject it. 
S75 is a different matter as unless your card provider contacts them, and no reason to in this case. Retailer will be none the wiser.

What do you mean by that?  I did not get it. 

Life__Goes__On

aniseymenova said:

What do you mean by that?  I did not get it. 

A Chargeback is a reversal of the  transaction so it's the  retailer (or in your case the yoga school) who pays it.

With a Section 75 it's the credit card who pays it,  they can try and claim it of the retailer (or in your case the yoga school) but they don't have too.

So with a S75 it's possible that you get a refund  and the retailer (or in your case the yoga school) also gets to keep they money.

But a S75 takes longer.