Sold car privately - Now told the car was misdescribed

MariusAdam

I went on Gov.uk to respond to the claim and I'm at the following step:
"Why do you disagree with the claim?

Their reasons for making the claim

We believe the car we purchased from the defendant was misdescribed and is not fit for purpose. Described as low mileage 48,000 miles from new. MOT until June 2020, recent full service. (advert - marketplace) We were also advised the car has not been in an accident ( via messenger) Originally when asked where he had purchased it from we were advised from a dealer bought in as a part ex."

This is my reply.(I haven't submitted it yet) 

I disagree with the claim because of the following reasons:

1.      I have described the car to the best of my knowledge based on the HPI check I have done prior purchasing the car and the information I received from the seller (via messenger)

2.      I wasn’t aware the car was in an accident and again, the HPI check and the messages from the seller confirm this

3.      I never advised I bought the car from a dealer. I advised I bought the car from someone in Manchester via Facebook Marketplace and that the person I bought the car from informed me the car was a part ex when he sold a different car.

DoaM

When you go to Acknowledge service of the claim (i.e. the AoS) do not enter anything in the Defence box! This is paramount, as anything you do enter in there (even a dot) is your entire defence and you cannot change it later. Simply do the AoS which gives you a further 14 days within which to file a proper defence. (See the NEWBIES FAQ in the Parking board ... one of the posts is about court claims. Yes, that board is about parking but the court process for a defendant is exactly the same).

MariusAdam

I applied for the further 14 days so my deadline is June 24th. I am doing this online on Gov.uk and I have to follow these steps. I am prompted to "Briefly explain why you disagree with the claim

If you fail to dispute any part of the claim the court may assume you admit it.

You should also say if you accept any parts of the claim.

Don’t give us a detailed timeline - we’ll ask for that separately."

I'm not sure I should leave this blank

MariusAdam

maybe these screenshots will offer more clarity

flower77g

I suspect that when (if) this ends up in front of a judge the key deciding factor will be whether this is true or not: "Described as low mileage 48,000 miles from new" and "the car has not been in an accident".   If untrue, MariusAdam will end up with a costs award against him, regardless of what he believes the mileage is, or whether he was aware the car was in an accident.   On the positive side, MariusAdam would then potentially be able to claim against HPI under their guarantee.   

DoaM

But the OP's argument would be (as a private seller) that being unaware of such issues is a valid defence, and the HPI report backs up their position. Remember that for private sales only 2 things matter:

1) The seller has good title to the goods
2) The goods match their description, insofar as the seller is able to determine

The OP seemingly can show compliance with both those requirements. (Roadworthiness is a possible additional requirement when it comes to vehicle sales, but the Consumer Rights Act/Sale of Goods Act doesn't mention this).

@MariusAdam have you checked out the NEWBIES FAQ that I mentioned? If not then please do so - pretty much any question you may have about the process of defending a court claim is covered there.

MariusAdam

I remember the claimant mentioned a Copart add saying the car was bought through a car auction as a cat U salvage. I have found the listing https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/33801297/Photos and the sale date is Tue. Aug 08, 2017.
I have bought the car in June 2019 and done a HPI check the previuos day. How can this not be mentioned on the HPI? 

Ditzy_Mitzy

MariusAdam said:

I remember the claimant mentioned a Copart add saying the car was bought through a car auction as a cat U salvage. I have found the listing https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/33801297/Photos and the sale date is Tue. Aug 08, 2017.
I have bought the car in June 2019 and done a HPI check the previuos day. How can this not be mentioned on the HPI? 

Arrrrggghhh!!!!!  I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole.  It's a complete wreck.  The front end has been completely destroyed.  Worst possible case: I wonder if someone's got hold of another front subframe from a different car and grafted it on to that bodyshell - God knows why for a second hand Corsa - it would explain why the engine and chassis numbers don't match.  It's also a category U, which apparently means it's not properly been assessed but, possibly, might be deemed unfit for road use if it was.  The photos solve the mystery of the missing airbags, at least, but that's a further indication it's not been repaired properly.  There's also, I think, evidence that the bodyshell itself might be distorted; the door shuts don't look right somehow and the panel gaps are uneven where the tailgate closes, suggesting it might be off centre.  The clutch pedal looks wonky too, which possibly further indicates serious damage if, like most cars, it's on a hard mounting on the bulkhead.  

DoaM

Which then begs the questions ... why wasn't it found in an HPI check? Why didn't OP spot this? Why didn't buyer (and his 2 mates) spot such issues? (If this would be obvious).

Or is it a case that they've found a similar vehicle to try and support their claim?

Ditzy_Mitzy

DoaM said:

Which then begs the questions ... why wasn't it found in an HPI check? Why didn't OP spot this? Why didn't buyer (and his 2 mates) spot such issues? (If this would be obvious).

Or is it a case that they've found a similar vehicle to try and support their claim?

As I understand it - Category U isn't anything official in terms of a write-off.  It's a generic term applied to cars that have been damaged in some way, but haven't gone through the insurance system.  The car isn't assessed by a loss adjuster, as there's no reason to, no damage report is completed and no recognised write-off category is assigned.  The possibility exists for anything up to a Cat-A, in real terms, to be clean on paper.  The HPI check wouldn't show anything as the relevant report doesn't exist.  It's a bit naughty when you think about it.  
With regards to the second question, anything might have happened.  The car, as pictured post accident, would need significant repair to bring it back to driveable condition.  It might have been a cut and shut job: welding the front end, including bulkhead, of another car to the damaged one.  That's my betting, as it would explain why it's gained a new engine in the process.  It might have had cheap repairs done: knocked back into shape and good bits put on from somewhere else.  It may have been 're-shelled', using a good body from somewhere.  I really don't know why someone would go to such lengths with an old Corsa, but clearly he has - something weird has happened to it between the crash and now.  The whole thing doesn't feel right to me.