Received multiple NTKs from ParkingEye nearly 3 months after 'Date of Event'

smc444

Hello,

I have read the newbie thread carefully following receipt of 8 NTKs (possibly more on the way) from ParkingEye for events that occurred in January.

The first 3 tickets arrived about 5 days after the first 3 offences. Presumably they then put a hold on sending anymore as they didn't want to scare me into not paying them. I waited as long as I could and dragged my feet where possible, before managing to have the 3 charges reduced, which I paid at the start of April.

Approximately one week after payment of these 3, over the course of a few days, I received 5 additional NTKs in the post. I am unsure as to whether there are more on the way, but it's been a few weeks since I last received one.

The shortest period between the date of event and the date of issue is 83 days. Based on what I've read, this earns me a few points in any appeal. I have not at any point identified as driver of the vehicle.

I found this appeal which fits my case very well: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74575725/#Comment_74575725

I read that this only applies to 'golden ticket' cases. I've attached photos of the letter below (blurred a lot of info to protect identity from PE). I'd really appreciate it if anyone could clarify as to whether this appeal is the right one given these circumstances.

Castle

Edit your post to remove any hint of the driver.

smc444

Castle said:

Edit your post to remove any hint of the driver.

I've just done that - thanks.

Umkomaas

If there is no Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) warning on the NtK (usually the reverse page for PE) then they cannot (and won't be attempting) hold the keeper liable, so be careful not to inadvertently identify the driver. For each NtK (regardless of whether it's PoFA compliant) you need to make an initial appeal to PE using the blue text template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, first post, to get your POPLA codes. Throughout this, you must deal with each NtK separately. 

What kind of a car park were the PCNs issued - hospital, individual retailer (which one), retail park, leisure centre ........?

How many tickets do you think are outstanding?  

Why have you incurred them?  

Is your vehicle a hire/lease/company car?

D_P_Dance

ParkingEye's signs are a cause  for concern, too high, too wordy, print too small, etc., read this.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

many of their claims have been dismissed by judges because of this.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

smc444

Umkomaas said:

If there is no Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) warning on the NtK (usually the reverse page for PE) then they cannot (and won't be attempting) hold the keeper liable, so be careful not to inadvertently identify the driver. For each NtK (regardless of whether it's PoFA compliant) you need to make an initial appeal to PE using the blue text template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, first post, to get your POPLA codes. Throughout this, you must deal with each NtK separately. 

What kind of a car park were the PCNs issued - hospital, individual retailer (which one), retail park, leisure centre ........?

How many tickets do you think are outstanding?  

Why have you incurred them?  

Is your vehicle a hire/lease/company car?

They were issued at a car park situated behind the back of an office building. I tried complaining to the owners but this was not successful. I believe approximately 5-10 PCNs to be outstanding. They were incurred due to negligence. The vehicle is a personal lease.

smc444

D_P_Dance said:

ParkingEye's signs are a cause  for concern, too high, too wordy, print too small, etc., read this.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

many of their claims have been dismissed by judges because of this.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

Thanks, but I think I'm going to stick to the original appeal I linked rather than mentioning about the parking signs. I think keeping it short and sharp will give me a better chance of succeeding at the POPLA stage.

KeithP

smc444 said:

Umkomaas said:

Is your vehicle a hire/lease/company car?

The vehicle is a personal lease.

Are you the Registered Keeper, or is that the leasing company?

smc444 said:

D_P_Dance said:

ParkingEye's signs are a cause  for concern, too high, too wordy, print too small, etc., 

Thanks, but I think I'm going to stick to the original appeal I linked rather than mentioning about the parking signs. I think keeping it short and sharp will give me a better chance of succeeding at the POPLA stage.

I think you are wrong to be taking that line.
Remember, it is the sign that forms the basis of any contract to park.

When it comes to PoPLA, you would be wise to throw every argument you can at them. 
You only have to win on one point, whereas PE have to win every challenge thrown at them.

Just my opinion of course.

smc444

Thanks Keith. I'm the registered keeper. You've changed my opinion regarding the signs, I'll include that in my appeal. I'm going to head over to the carpark now and take some photos of signage - I know they are very high from memory.

Umkomaas

In each POPLA appeal, where the NtK is not PoFA-compliant, your main (and first) appeal point must be 'No Keeper Liability', with a step-by-step reasoning why for the POPLA Assessor (some aren't the sharpest tools in the box). You follow that up with the template appeal point 'The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact liable for the charge'. 

Here is a thread from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky that should help you. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74575725#Comment_74575725

Add into your POPLA appeals the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, third post template appeal points on 'Landowner Authority' and 'Signage' to put you in a decent position to succeed. 

Remember, each PCN is a separate entity - and ....... park smarter in future, almost every private car park is now a bear trap that can seriously affect your wealth. 

Ralph-y

"The first 3 tickets arrived about 5 days after the first 3 offences. Presumably they then put a hold on sending anymore as they didn't want to scare me into not paying them. I waited as long as I could and dragged my feet where possible, before managing to have the 3 charges reduced, which I paid at the start of April."

so what did you say to them to get it reduced? any mention of the driver? this is inportant so please explain fully

Ralph