Lost temporary job due to Corona Virus lock-down - only got £18 for a MONTH of Universal Credit

JessicaF_2

tomtom256 said:

Its automatic Calcotti. The feed comes in electronically for each claim on the assessment end day and then the statement gets auto-generated, if all is working.

yes, my understanding is that it is all supposed to be automatic. But the feed into the Real Time Earnings system at DWP comes in 4 times a day. 

makara

Hypothetical scenario here - 

As I was an Umbrella contractor (not self-employed) - and my Umbrella company are trying to get its temps Furloughed from the date/s they lost their contracts - IF I do get Furloughed, then as it will (presumably) be 80% (or less) of my earnings (and pro-rata too, as I had started the job not long before) - should I inform the DWP?  Or does the Umbrella company do that indirectly, e.g. the Umbrella company by default informs the HMRC, who then inform the DWP (etc, etc)? 

As said - all hypothetical as yet, but better to know in advance.

tomtom256

JessicaF_2 said:

yes, my understanding is that it is all supposed to be automatic. But the feed into the Real Time Earnings system at DWP comes in 4 times a day. 

We can also view it in CIS for RTI disputes etc and see dates and amounts paid if we need to.

tomtom256

makara said:

Hypothetical scenario here - 

As I was an Umbrella contractor (not self-employed) - and my Umbrella company are trying to get its temps Furloughed from the date/s they lost their contracts - IF I do get Furloughed, then as it will (presumably) be 80% (or less) of my earnings (and pro-rata too, as I had started the job not long before) - should I inform the DWP?  Or does the Umbrella company do that indirectly, e.g. the Umbrella company by default informs the HMRC, who then inform the DWP (etc, etc)? 

As said - all hypothetical as yet, but better to know in advance.

It should come via the RTI feed as the umbrella company should notify HMRC of any payments made, if not you will need to self report your earnings at the end of your assessment period.

TheShape

tomtom256 said:

JessicaF_2 said:

yes, my understanding is that it is all supposed to be automatic. But the feed into the Real Time Earnings system at DWP comes in 4 times a day. 

We can also view it in CIS for RTI disputes etc and see dates and amounts paid if we need to.

Just a thought re CIS.  From what I've seen, the Income tab in CIS shows for each income payment, a received date and a payment date.  I'm assuming (dangerous I know) that the received date is when HMRC was notified and the payment date is the date that the employer makes (or records as made) the payment to the employee.  It certainly seems that the payment date is the date that feeds into UCFS.

CIS shows gross pay, TAX, NI and pension contributions.

tomtom256

TheShape, thats my undertsanding.

JessicaF_2

TheShape said:

tomtom256 said:

JessicaF_2 said:

yes, my understanding is that it is all supposed to be automatic. But the feed into the Real Time Earnings system at DWP comes in 4 times a day. 

We can also view it in CIS for RTI disputes etc and see dates and amounts paid if we need to.

Just a thought re CIS.  From what I've seen, the Income tab in CIS shows for each income payment, a received date and a payment date.  I'm assuming (dangerous I know) that the received date is when HMRC was notified and the payment date is the date that the employer makes (or records as made) the payment to the employee.  It certainly seems that the payment date is the date that feeds into UCFS.

CIS shows gross pay, TAX, NI and pension contributions.

I haven't seen the CIS system you are talking about - but the payment date sounds like it might be the box 43 'payment date' box from  the FPS submission. That is what feeds to UCFS - which sounds like it is the same thing. As I said above, the problem with that box on the submission is that it might be the actual payment date but it might also be the contractual pay date (so not necessarily the date the payment was made)

NedS

@TheShape @tomtom256 As much as it pains me to say/admit, I think that's actually incorrect even though it goes against all reasonable logic. I think @JessicaF_2 was right in what she said earlier in the thread.

The best argument / observation I can offer why: consider a case where a person is actually paid on one date and the employer is late in reporting to HMRC, and actually reports through RTI on a later date, and that later date is now into the next AP.

In the AP in which the claimant was paid (received their wages), there was no RTI information so they received a full UC award. Subsequently the employer reports late to HMRC though RTI so in the next AP the UC system will take into account those earnings. Why? because the UC system has used the date they were reported to RTI, not the date the RTI feed says the customer was paid (previous AP). Further, if you were to raise an RTI dispute, it would be rejected as there is nothing to dispute as that is how the system is designed to work. You would obviously only notice this if the AP happens to end between the two dates (payment received and payment reported dates).

The other alternative is that the system is more clever than we give it credit for, and uses a combination depending on circumstances - using the payment received date by default unless the reported date is after the payment received date in which case it will use the latter.

calcotti

NedS said:  You would obviously only notice this if the AP happens to end between the two dates (payment received and payment reported dates).

Which, as I understand it, shouldn't happen because employer is not supposed to report after the payment date.

JessicaF_2

calcotti said:

NedS said:  You would obviously only notice this if the AP happens to end between the two dates (payment received and payment reported dates).

Which, as I understand it, shouldn't happen because employer is not supposed to report after the payment date.

That was the original intention and rules behind RTI and indeed still reflects the legislative position. But HMRC have introduced relaxations so it is entirely possible for an employer to pay say on Thursday and then send the submission to HMRC on Saturday (if Saturday is the contractual pay date). Also, HMRC allow submission on a Monday if the contractual date was over the weekend - no late penalty, you can just enter a code on your submission. Similarly at Christmas, often companies shut down and pay very early (a week or 10 days early) but depending on what they put in box 43 determines which UC assessment period it falls in.