Chargeback Reversal

monkeyt

Hi,
14th April 2019 I booked a hire car with Cardelmar, I paid on this booking day in full, I also added on extra insurance for no excess etc - total cost was 298£ including the extra "all-inclusive insurance". May 2019 I went to Switzerland as planned, returned the car after a week, no problems. Then when my credit card statement came through for May I noticed a car hire fee for 556£ which went through the day after I returned the car, 12th May.

I contacted the hire car company in Switzerland and they said they could not confirm what the extra charges were for. I then contacted AQUA credit card company and they sent a claim form, I filled it in and sent off loads of evidence including the original receipt which said I had paid everything in advance including the all-inclusive insurance (so no way they could be charging for "damage" but there was no damage to the car in any event). AQUA refunded the money to my account a few weeks later after sending a letter to say they were charging it back to the retailer. All sorted so I thought - payment went back into my credit card account July 11th.

Then after thinking this was all sorted when checking my statement in December 2019 I see a "MANUAL CHARGEBACK REVERSED" entry on my statement and they have taken an amount of 556£ again, on 20th November. I was rather annoyed. I decide to write a letter of complaint to AQUA as this is not acceptable, 10th January they reply telling me they are looking into it, 31st January another letter telling me they are sorry for delay, still looking into it. 

I then write to them again 20th February saying it isn't good enough and I want the money back as final resolution for this. Nothing since. 

I don´t know what to do next. I can't afford to lose 556£. They took the money back without notification over 4 months after giving it back to me (and over 6 months after the initial transaction) - Is this even allowed?

I would appreciate any help. Thank you.

born_again

Reversal means the Hire company have rejected the chargeback. We always advice customer, It is a temporary refund and that the if the retailer contests, you will be redebited.
On what basis was it being chargeback?
Surprised that they have not just either told you why, or as we do simply send the paperwork the company rejects with. As this is the reason why.
Sadly a complaint won't help much.

But there is a up side. If they had not rejected it. Hire companies are very fond of taking these charges to court to get payment.

Life__Goes__On

"

monkeyt said:

Hi,
14th April 2019 I booked a hire car with Cardelmar, I paid on this booking day in full, I also added on extra insurance for no excess etc - total cost was 298£ including the extra "all-inclusive insurance". May 2019 I went to Switzerland as planned, returned the car after a week, no problems. Then when my credit card statement came through for May I noticed a car hire fee for 556£ which went through the day after I returned the car, 12th May.

I contacted the hire car company in Switzerland and they said they could not confirm what the extra charges were for. I then contacted AQUA credit card company and they sent a claim form, I filled it in and sent off loads of evidence including the original receipt which said I had paid everything in advance including the all-inclusive insurance (so no way they could be charging for "damage" but there was no damage to the car in any event). AQUA refunded the money to my account a few weeks later after sending a letter to say they were charging it back to the retailer. All sorted so I thought - payment went back into my credit card account July 11th.

Then after thinking this was all sorted when checking my statement in December 2019 I see a "MANUAL CHARGEBACK REVERSED" entry on my statement and they have taken an amount of 556£ again, on 20th November. I was rather annoyed. I decide to write a letter of complaint to AQUA as this is not acceptable, 10th January they reply telling me they are looking into it, 31st January another letter telling me they are sorry for delay, still looking into it. 

I then write to them again 20th February saying it isn't good enough and I want the money back as final resolution for this. Nothing since. 

I don´t know what to do next. I can't afford to lose 556£. They took the money back without notification over 4 months after giving it back to me (and over 6 months after the initial transaction) - Is this even allowed?

I would appreciate any help. Thank you.

Have you raised it as a Section 75?

jonesMUFCforever

Life Goes On - why S75?
The insurer is claiming damage to the car so this is a dispute -IMO S75 does not come into it.
The OP should continue with his complaint and if necessary go to the ombudsman. It would cost £550 to go to a full decision with the ombudsman or it will cost them £556 to settle without prejudice. So they will settle in the end as it will cost them either way - unless of course the hire company come up with proof of the damage to the car. 

Life__Goes__On

jonesMUFCforever said:

Life Goes On - why S75?
The insurer is claiming damage to the car so this is a dispute -IMO S75 does not come into it.

The OP states " I had paid everything in advance including the all-inclusive insurance (so no way they could be charging for "damage" but there was no damage to the car in any event)".
Isn't it a breach of contract taking  more than the agreed amount?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Streaky_Bacon

It certainly seems that Aqua have fallen short by not providing you with a proper response and a copy of the reasons for the reversal.

As long as you believe that your complaint was well drafted, I can see no reason not to escalate this to the ombudsman, as you have been waiting since February.

I would suggest that you also begin a s75 claim against Aqua. It would seem that there has been a breach of contract. A claim will require Aqua to provide you with any reasons that the hire company (and therefore Aqua) are not liable, or pay up.

I would start both of the above as soon as you can, but probably be prepared for a long wait.

jonesMUFCforever

So in the ''contract'' are you saying there are no clauses which state that the hirer is responsible for any damage incurred?
I still say there is no S75 here but hey ho.

Streaky_Bacon

jonesMUFCforever said:

So in the ''contract'' are you saying there are no clauses which state that the hirer is responsible for any damage incurred?
I still say there is no S75 here but hey ho.

Why do you keep mentioning damage? The OP hasn't said there was damage, and has had no information as to why the chargeback was disputed, damage or otherwise.

As it currently stands, the hire company has simply taken too much money from the OP, so there is a prima facie breach of contract.

By submitting a s75 claim, the onus will be on Aqua to explain why there was no breach of contract (assuming it believes that no breach exists).

lr1277

I don't know about Aqua but my credit card company has something like a 100 or 180 day limit on S75 transactions.  Again I can't remember if this counter started at the transaction date or the date whatever was meant to be supplied. But if the time limit rule applies then it looks like the S75 claim might be out of time.

Also I expect with the name S75, this is from the clause in the relevant law. So it may not just be my credit card company that has this time limit. Perhaps the OP should ask Aqua about time limits on S75 claims.

eskbanker

lr1277 said:

I don't know about Aqua but my credit card company has something like a 100 or 180 day limit on S75 transactions.  Again I can't remember if this counter started at the transaction date or the date whatever was meant to be supplied. But if the time limit rule applies then it looks like the S75 claim might be out of time.

Also I expect with the name S75, this is from the clause in the relevant law. So it may not just be my credit card company that has this time limit. Perhaps the OP should ask Aqua about time limits on S75 claims.

There are no time limits for section 75 claims (the legislation makes no mention of them), but there are for chargeback - the differences are outlined at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback/#what

monkeyt

Thanks to everyone for the replies, it´s great to feel some support... I´m so glad I found this forum on my search for help.
I´m going to try to respond to all.

Have you raised it as a Section 75?

I made the dispute with Aqua card in May just after I found the rogue payment. I don´t know if it was a section 75 or another kind of dispute.

I paid Cardelmar for the initial all-inclusive booking, they charged me 298£ at time of booking, in April. I picked the car up in Switzerland from Budget Rent A Car, the new 556£ debit to my credit card account was issued by AVIS just after I returned the car. 

There was no damage to the car, they inspected it when I returned it and everything was in order. It made no sense to me when I saw a 556£ charge to my card. When I called Budget Rent a Car office in Switzerland they could not confirm what the 556£ charges were for, they were going to call me back and did not - I called again and couldn´t speak to the same person. I then contacted Aqua who raised the dispute and returned the money to my credit card a few weeks later.

Very sneaky to charge the card after I have left Switzerland and am back in the UK. Very hard to do anything about it, other than contacting the credit card company (which in this case has been extremely difficult and time-consuming).

jonesMUFCforever said:

The OP should continue with his complaint and if necessary go to the ombudsman. It would cost £550 to go to a full decision with the ombudsman or it will cost them £556 to settle without prejudice. So they will settle in the end as it will cost them either way - unless of course the hire company come up with proof of the damage to the car. 

This seems interesting, is the 550£ a fixed charge which would be plus my refund if they lost? (I assume they will lose as there is no way I am due to pay this 556£ payment.