UK citizen repatriated to UK with expired UK driving license

452

Emmia said:

This post from AgeUk may be helpful - as the person the op is enquiring about is 80, and didn't renew his licence/entitlement to drive when he was 70,  he doesn't currently have a UK licence, and hasn't had a valid UK entitlement to drive for a decade. (The entitlement to drive part is what allows you to to continue driving when your photocard licence is being updated) if he's pulled over by PC Plod and tries to argue he can drive because his licence is in for renewal there is a strong possibility they'll see him as driving without a licence (it is unlikely in the circumstances he'd be able to produce his UK licence at a police station within 7 days) which would also invalidate his insurance policy...  lets face it, the most likely time for a licence to be questioned is if there is an accident, which means he'll also potentially be committing the offence of driving without valid insurance. 

He could drive on his US licence for up to 12 months whilst he's waiting for his UK licence to come through - although that may affect his insurance premium, which will probably already be higher due to his age, and lack of no claims discount. 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/travel-hobbies/driving/

Do explain why his insurance wouldn't be valid. 

452

Jumblebumble said:

Murphy_The_Cat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Indeed I certainly accept that Mr Plod would take a lot of convincing if he were stopped and computer said no
I don't believe  for one moment that the DVLA have stopped opening post as they cannot possibly know without x ray vision if an envelope is from an HGV driver as stated on their website
I can believe that they are not processing applications but that is irrelevant to section 88

In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, we are prioritising applications relating to HGV drivers and critical workers to make sure they get any documentation they need as quickly as possible. We are unable to deal with any other paper applications until further notice.

DVLA’s customer reception in Swansea is closed. Please do not travel for assistance in person as there will be no one available to help you.

I'm not sure the DVLA will issue a licence. His entitlement to drive ended at 70 and he didn't renew it. Instead he drove on a US licence for obvious reasons, there is not a exchange agreement with the USA so the new licence maybe a provisional. 

AdrianC

452 said:

Do explain why his insurance wouldn't be valid. 

Simples. Because he doesn't have a valid UK licence, and hasn't held one for a decade. It's not hard.

His only valid licence is his US one. If he's lied to the insurer on the proposal, and told them he holds a full UK, then the policy can and will be cancelled.

If it's discovered by the insurer in the throes of a claim, then they will still pay for the other party's damage, but they will pass the bill straight back to him.

Car_54

AdrianC said:

452 said:

Do explain why his insurance wouldn't be valid. 

Simples. Because he doesn't have a valid UK licence, and hasn't held one for a decade. It's not hard.

His only valid licence is his US one. If he's lied to the insurer on the proposal, and told them he holds a full UK, then the policy can and will be cancelled.

If it's discovered by the insurer in the throes of a claim, then they will still pay for the other party's damage, but they will pass the bill straight back to him.

True, but he would not have committed the offence of driving without insurance, as Emmia suggested.

452

AdrianC said:

452 said:

Do explain why his insurance wouldn't be valid. 

Simples. Because he doesn't have a valid UK licence, and hasn't held one for a decade. It's not hard.

His only valid licence is his US one. If he's lied to the insurer on the proposal, and told them he holds a full UK, then the policy can and will be cancelled.

If it's discovered by the insurer in the throes of a claim, then they will still pay for the other party's damage, but they will pass the bill straight back to him.

Maybe he tell the insurance company the truth, he has a US licence and has applied for a UK one. Would that be wrong?

Emmia

452 said:

Jumblebumble said:

Murphy_The_Cat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Indeed I certainly accept that Mr Plod would take a lot of convincing if he were stopped and computer said no
I don't believe  for one moment that the DVLA have stopped opening post as they cannot possibly know without x ray vision if an envelope is from an HGV driver as stated on their website
I can believe that they are not processing applications but that is irrelevant to section 88

In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, we are prioritising applications relating to HGV drivers and critical workers to make sure they get any documentation they need as quickly as possible. We are unable to deal with any other paper applications until further notice.

DVLA’s customer reception in Swansea is closed. Please do not travel for assistance in person as there will be no one available to help you.

I'm not sure the DVLA will issue a licence. His entitlement to drive ended at 70 and he didn't renew it. Instead he drove on a US licence for obvious reasons, there is not a exchange agreement with the USA so the new licence maybe a provisional. 

I think the 80 year old previously had a UK licence,  but let it lapse when he moved to the US - so he can get the UK licence back provided he self delares himself as fit to drive / provides something from the Dr asserting this as part of the over 70s process. 

452

Emmia said:

452 said:

Jumblebumble said:

Murphy_The_Cat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Indeed I certainly accept that Mr Plod would take a lot of convincing if he were stopped and computer said no
I don't believe  for one moment that the DVLA have stopped opening post as they cannot possibly know without x ray vision if an envelope is from an HGV driver as stated on their website
I can believe that they are not processing applications but that is irrelevant to section 88

In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, we are prioritising applications relating to HGV drivers and critical workers to make sure they get any documentation they need as quickly as possible. We are unable to deal with any other paper applications until further notice.

DVLA’s customer reception in Swansea is closed. Please do not travel for assistance in person as there will be no one available to help you.

I'm not sure the DVLA will issue a licence. His entitlement to drive ended at 70 and he didn't renew it. Instead he drove on a US licence for obvious reasons, there is not a exchange agreement with the USA so the new licence maybe a provisional. 

I think the 80 year old previously had a UK licence,  but let it lapse when he moved to the US - so he can get the UK licence back provided he self delares himself as fit to drive / provides something from the Dr asserting this as part of the over 70s process. 

After 10 years they may have no record of him having held a licence. 

Emmia

452 said:

Emmia said:

452 said:

Jumblebumble said:

Murphy_The_Cat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Indeed I certainly accept that Mr Plod would take a lot of convincing if he were stopped and computer said no
I don't believe  for one moment that the DVLA have stopped opening post as they cannot possibly know without x ray vision if an envelope is from an HGV driver as stated on their website
I can believe that they are not processing applications but that is irrelevant to section 88

In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, we are prioritising applications relating to HGV drivers and critical workers to make sure they get any documentation they need as quickly as possible. We are unable to deal with any other paper applications until further notice.

DVLA’s customer reception in Swansea is closed. Please do not travel for assistance in person as there will be no one available to help you.

I'm not sure the DVLA will issue a licence. His entitlement to drive ended at 70 and he didn't renew it. Instead he drove on a US licence for obvious reasons, there is not a exchange agreement with the USA so the new licence maybe a provisional. 

I think the 80 year old previously had a UK licence,  but let it lapse when he moved to the US - so he can get the UK licence back provided he self delares himself as fit to drive / provides something from the Dr asserting this as part of the over 70s process. 

After 10 years they may have no record of him having held a licence. 

I'm going to presume that he held a licence which was issued centrally by DVLA or precedessors - which started around 50 years ago. If so then they'll almost certainly have the record. 

If he left the UK only holding a licence which was issued by a local authority before things got centralised (in the early 1970s) then I suppose they might not. In that situation he'll need to apply for a provisional and pass all the elements of the current driving test.

Emmia

452 said:

AdrianC said:

452 said:

Do explain why his insurance wouldn't be valid. 

Simples. Because he doesn't have a valid UK licence, and hasn't held one for a decade. It's not hard.

His only valid licence is his US one. If he's lied to the insurer on the proposal, and told them he holds a full UK, then the policy can and will be cancelled.

If it's discovered by the insurer in the throes of a claim, then they will still pay for the other party's damage, but they will pass the bill straight back to him.

Maybe he tell the insurance company the truth, he has a US licence and has applied for a UK one. Would that be wrong?

The only valid licence would be the US one - so that is what they'll quote on. He may be able to get a reduction in the policy once he has his UK licence in his hands.

452

Emmia said:

452 said:

Emmia said:

452 said:

Jumblebumble said:

Murphy_The_Cat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Indeed I certainly accept that Mr Plod would take a lot of convincing if he were stopped and computer said no
I don't believe  for one moment that the DVLA have stopped opening post as they cannot possibly know without x ray vision if an envelope is from an HGV driver as stated on their website
I can believe that they are not processing applications but that is irrelevant to section 88

In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, we are prioritising applications relating to HGV drivers and critical workers to make sure they get any documentation they need as quickly as possible. We are unable to deal with any other paper applications until further notice.

DVLA’s customer reception in Swansea is closed. Please do not travel for assistance in person as there will be no one available to help you.

I'm not sure the DVLA will issue a licence. His entitlement to drive ended at 70 and he didn't renew it. Instead he drove on a US licence for obvious reasons, there is not a exchange agreement with the USA so the new licence maybe a provisional. 

I think the 80 year old previously had a UK licence,  but let it lapse when he moved to the US - so he can get the UK licence back provided he self delares himself as fit to drive / provides something from the Dr asserting this as part of the over 70s process. 

After 10 years they may have no record of him having held a licence. 

I'm going to presume that he held a licence which was issued centrally by DVLA or precedessors - which started around 50 years ago. If so then they'll almost certainly have the record. 

If he left the UK only holding a licence which was issued by a local authority before things got centralised (in the early 1970s) then I suppose they might not. In that situation he'll need to apply for a provisional and pass all the elements of the current driving test.

You've not got much experience in dealing with the dvla.