UK citizen repatriated to UK with expired UK driving license

Car_54

Emmia said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Renewing the licence for the over 70's requires the support of a doctor to certify that the person is medically fit enough

No it doesn't. You simply have to declare yourself fit. I did it last month.

Emmia

Car_54 said:

Emmia said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Renewing the licence for the over 70's requires the support of a doctor to certify that the person is medically fit enough

No it doesn't. You simply have to declare yourself fit. I did it last month.

I stand corrected - but that is what is says on the link for the over 70's https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70

Driving while DVLA has your licence

You can drive while your licence is being renewed if you meet all the following conditions:

• you have the support of your doctor to continue driving
• you had a valid licence
• you only drive under the conditions of the previous licence
• your application is less than a year old
• your last licence wasn’t revoked or refused for medical reasons

Jumblebumble

I think there is a lot of confusion here between what happens if a person renews and the renewal completes before the expiry of the existing license  before the license expires and what happens if it has expired before starting the renewal or it expires  during the renewal process 
if the applicant is not yet 70 then  then none of section 88 applies as the applicant does not need approval of a doctor any more than I do.
they do seem to doctor approval if over 70 and they have applied but not received their license.

452

Jumblebumble said:

I think there is a lot of confusion here between what happens if a person renews and the renewal completes before the expiry of the existing license  before the license expires and what happens if it has expired before starting the renewal or it expires  during the renewal process 
if the applicant is not yet 70 then  then none of section 88 applies as the applicant does not need approval of a doctor any more than I do.
they do seem to doctor approval if over 70 and they have applied but not received their license.

I think it's already been stated on here, but at 70 you don't need a doctors approval you declare yourself fit to drive. 

Car_54

Jumblebumble said:

I think there is a lot of confusion here between what happens if a person renews and the renewal completes before the expiry of the existing license  before the license expires and what happens if it has expired before starting the renewal or it expires  during the renewal process 
if the applicant is not yet 70 then  then none of section 88 applies as the applicant does not need approval of a doctor any more than I do.
they do seem to doctor approval if over 70 and they have applied but not received their license.

There certainly is some confusion: section 88 has nothing to do with health or doctor's approval.

To ensure continuity of entitlement, you must apply for renewal and complete the process before your 70th birthday, i.e. when you are 69. I can assure you from recent experience that you are indeed required to decare that you are fit to drive.

If you do not renew until after your birthday exactly the same applies.

Jumblebumble

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application
Next time you get a NIP and then a fail to identify try telling the magistrate that you were not opening your post so you should be found not guilty  and see what response you get.
 ?
Perhaps look up the interpretation act if you don't understand what I am saying

Murphy_The_Cat

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Car_54

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application
Next time you get a NIP and then a fail to identify try telling the magistrate that you were not opening your post so you should be found not guilty  and see what response you get.
 ?
Perhaps look up the interpretation act if you don't understand what I am saying

A NIP is subject to the Interpretation. Act because it is required by an Act of Parliament to be served on the addressee. Which Act requires a driving licence application to be served by post?

Jumblebumble

Murphy_The_Cat said:

Jumblebumble said:

Car_54 said:

Jumblebumble said:

I am not convinced 
Can anyone tell me why  section 88 does not apply here and  reenable the entitlement to drive as soon the DVLA receive an application as per the below extract from
 As soon as the DVLA receives your correct and complete application for a new licence and as long as you meet all the Section 88 criteria you may drive.
To address the bit about having  had a license section 88 actually says

• You have held a valid driving licence (see

*below) and only drive vehicles you have

applied for on your current application and

were entitled to drive on your previous licence
There is no qualification on when the license was expired

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Agreed. s88 says "has held" rather than "holds". But it also says that he can only drive if his application has been rerceived by the Secretary of State. Since the SoS's boys at the DVLA aren't even opening the post at the moment that's going to be difficult.

I think you are being silly here as they clearly have received the application

If you're thinking about my relative, who is the person that I referred to in my opening post - he hasn't done anything about reapplying for his licence, as it looks like it can only be done by post and with DVLA not opening their post, it is, as he says, a pointless exercise.

Perhaps, possibly, maybe if he was a younger person who was very confident of the rules/regulations/laws around the DL system he may be acting differently.  As a 80yo who hasn't lived/driven in the UK for several decades, he doesn't need the complication of dealing with a rozzer, regardless of whether he's in the right or the wrong !

Indeed I certainly accept that Mr Plod would take a lot of convincing if he were stopped and computer said no
I don't believe  for one moment that the DVLA have stopped opening post as they cannot possibly know without x ray vision if an envelope is from an HGV driver as stated on their website
I can believe that they are not processing applications but that is irrelevant to section 88

In line with the government’s advice we have a very limited number of staff on-site who are only dealing with applications from those who are directly involved in the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, we are prioritising applications relating to HGV drivers and critical workers to make sure they get any documentation they need as quickly as possible. We are unable to deal with any other paper applications until further notice.

DVLA’s customer reception in Swansea is closed. Please do not travel for assistance in person as there will be no one available to help you.

Emmia

This post from AgeUk may be helpful - as the person the op is enquiring about is 80, and didn't renew his licence/entitlement to drive when he was 70,  he doesn't currently have a UK licence, and hasn't had a valid UK entitlement to drive for a decade. (The entitlement to drive part is what allows you to to continue driving when your photocard licence is being updated) if he's pulled over by PC Plod and tries to argue he can drive because his licence is in for renewal there is a strong possibility they'll see him as driving without a licence (it is unlikely in the circumstances he'd be able to produce his UK licence at a police station within 7 days) which would also invalidate his insurance policy...  lets face it, the most likely time for a licence to be questioned is if there is an accident, which means he'll also potentially be committing the offence of driving without valid insurance. 

He could drive on his US licence for up to 12 months whilst he's waiting for his UK licence to come through - although that may affect his insurance premium, which will probably already be higher due to his age, and lack of no claims discount. 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/travel-hobbies/driving/