Garden Boundaries

HayleyB26

Hi all, a relative of mine bought their property from the council around 3 years ago, it is a maisonette flat with a shared garden. Obviously, when purchasing this they received the title plan which outlined the general boundaries for their garden.
Recently, their neighbour has begun putting a fence up around their proportion of the garden, however it appears it is encroaching on my relative's garden also. 
Is there any way of determining the exact dimensions/boundaries of the garden? 

Comms69

With a surveyor yes. If it's encroaching by less than a foot there's no point.

HayleyB26

Comms69 said:

With a surveyor yes. If it's encroaching by less than a foot there's no point.

Sorry if I seem stupid but we were advised to contact the land registry but I'm assuming they can only confirm what is on the title plan? How will the surveyor know the exact boundary points?

Comms69

Ye land registry simply hold the deeds. That will include an outline of your land. Unless there are obvious 'landmarks' - e.g. a body of water, or a manhole cover, etc. It's only accurate to a couple of feet (1 foot either side)

the surveyor wont know the boundary, they will however carry out an inspection an predict the boundary to with-in half a foot at best. Ergo if it's less than a foot, dont bother. 

HayleyB26

Comms69 said:

Ye land registry simply hold the deeds. That will include an outline of your land. Unless there are obvious 'landmarks' - e.g. a body of water, or a manhole cover, etc. It's only accurate to a couple of feet (1 foot either side)

the surveyor wont know the boundary, they will however carry out an inspection an predict the boundary to with-in half a foot at best. Ergo if it's less than a foot, dont bother. 

Thanks for confirming that, I really appreciate it. 
It appears it would only be a couple of feet, however our issue is that it will restrict the path leading to my relatives garden, making it more difficult to access. The gap will be pretty tight to get into their garden. I might get in touch with a surveyor like you suggested and go from there. Thanks

tommyedinburgh

What did the neighbour say when you approached them about it?

princeofpounds

The land registry will just hold the title plan. They may have some general information but boundary disputes is not what they do.

Typically title plans identify 'general boundaries', usually by identifying features on the ground that demarcate the border in reality. Those features are rarely straight, and sometimes move (the classic example being the edge of a stream). So that is why you cannot just measure from the plan. What matters more are the features the plan identifies on the ground and how those define the boundary. That doesn't mean the plans are useless - they can be very clear and usually are, but just that the situation on the ground may differ slightly form what you see on the plan.

In your case, one of the first questions would be - what defined the boundary beforehand, where was it relative to the new fence, and do you have any evidence of this?

A second question would be - can you show us the title plan (anonymised of course)? What features define the general boundary line on the plan?

For more information on the concept of general boundaries, you might want to go to the gardenlaw boundaries forum and read the sticky 'put the tape measure away', as well as other threads there. It's not a very active forum but you may wish to post also.

Some surveyors specialise in identifying boundaries from plans, if there is uncertainty or a dispute. There is a whole body of convention about how to do this - e.g. which features to pick, where to measure from on that feature etc. -  and if they do need to resort to the tape measure, they can do so knowing how the law treats the various sources of error. If there is a genuine dispute but no desire to 'go legal' then a settlement can often be reached on the basis of a surveyor's report. 

Only courts can ultimately enforce boundaries, usually on the evidence of surveyors. If your relative has house insurance with legal cover, and you are prepared to go legal, then it's often best to refer the matter to them. 

It's generally true that small movements in boundaries are often not worth the hassle. Boundary disputes can be expensive and protracted. In particular, you would have to disclose disputes when selling the property, and that is often awkward. However, if the infringement is clear and material you should defend your rights, because if you don't you will lose that land. A few inches is usually not material, but a couple of feet probably is, and certainly it is if it is restricting your access around the side return.

Finally, there is another type of boundary called a determined boundary. This really is a tape-measure job, usually used when there are no suitable features on the land, or as a result of a historical dispute or subdivision of a large plot. Even then, it's not as straightforward as you might think - do you measure up slopes for example, or on a level? Anyway, you don't have one of these, so this is just for your information.

HayleyB26

Once the fence panels are up, this path will be extremely restricted and narrow.
tommyedinburgh said:

What did the neighbour say when you approached them about it?

Haven't approached the neighbour, but from what my relative has said, he is in belief that he has only used his own land. 

princeofpounds said:

A second question would be - can you show us the title plan (anonymised of course)? What features define the general boundary line on the plan?

I have attached the anonymised title plan and also  couple of photos showing what we are querying. There are bushes along the grass line, which determine the boundary, so as you can see it appears those posts have come across the boundary. I would say it is about a foot, but not certain. 

Would the bushes be classed as a physical feature that can determine the general boundaries?

tommyedinburgh

Before going to all the bother you have went to or plan to go to re surveyors etc, why not speak to the neighbour? 

HayleyB26

tommyedinburgh said:

Before going to all the bother you have went to or plan to go to re surveyors etc, why not speak to the neighbour? 

Yeah that will be the plan, just proving slightly difficult with the current covid-19 circumstances. Just wanted to know where we stood in terms of this as can't imagine they will be too pleased with the conversation and reluctant to rectify, especially when they have invested in it. 

Thanks for all the advice

jimbog

Ask for the fence panels to be flush to their side of the posts to give you elbow room