Martin Lewis MSE show dedicated to Holidays/Flights ?

Butts

Judging by the amount of traffic generated on here could Martin consider dedicating one of his shows to this topic ?
Perhaps then we could see the wood for the trees and clear up a lot of the myths and half truths that are out there.
I for one think this could help to reassure people in all sorts of circumstances of their rights and the action they should or should not take.

bagand96

It's not a bad idea, and I have also wondered if he would do something similar.  A couple of the shows he has done there has been questions.

I think perhaps one of the problems may be that, although on a personal level people will obviously consider it very important, in the great scheme of things, at this time, it may be considered a lesser priority over things like job losses, furlough, income, benefits, small business, self employed etc.

Another issue is that whilst the law in most cases is perfectly clear, and on the consumer's side, it's virtually impossible to enforce at the moment.  If a company hasn't refunded you in a set time frame you could lodge a Small Claims Court case.  But if Martin told everyone to do that, the courts would be overwhelmed and the backlog would run into years.  Not forgetting that the courts are also at a standstill at the moment anyway.

In one of the previous shows Martin did express a limited amount of sympathy towards the travel industry, saying something along the lines of it might be right to be patient and accept a voucher for now - it's in no ones interest to bankrupt these companies.  It;s clear from this board alone that a lot of people do not agree at all with that sentiment.  So he's treading a fine line!

Then throw in that the Government may well end up supporting some of the measures the travel industry have asked for.  they have in other countries.  So advice given today may end up not being correct down the line.

Its a complete mess and a very difficult situation for all involved.  It's going to take a long time to get sorted, will likely need government intervention, maybe some test cases in court, unfortunately nothing will happen fast.

Life__Goes__On

bagand96 said:

In one of the previous shows Martin did express a limited amount of sympathy towards the travel industry, saying something along the lines of it might be right to be patient and accept a voucher for now - it's in no ones interest to bankrupt these companies.  It;s clear from this board alone that a lot of people do not agree at all with that sentiment.  So he's treading a fine line!

It is a thin line, about legal advice and what is  "moral"  at the present time.
But with advice I feel if you offer it then it should be legal and the "moral" is down to those receiving the advice.

For me most airlines aren't "moral" anymore, I remember the time when you missed your flight they would just book you on another one for free, sometimes with a different airline, even if they didn't have too.
Now if you miss your flight "tough luck" is normally the answer, so very hard to give goodwill, when it hasn't been shown to you.

bagand96

Life__Goes__On said:

For me most airlines aren't "moral" anymore, I remember the time when you missed your flight they would just book you on another one for free, sometimes with a different airline, even if they didn't have too.
Now if you miss your flight "tough luck" is normally the answer, so very hard to give goodwill, when it hasn't been shown to you.

Good times.  You got a sweet before take off too, sometimes a hot towel!  But you couldn't get to continental Europe, and back, for £50.  Swings and roundabouts.

Life__Goes__On

And a meal,   but not sure if that was a good thing.

Butts

Life__Goes__On said:

And a meal,   but not sure if that was a good thing.

I remember when you could have a cigarette as well !!
Back on topic it seems there is not much support for a travel dedicated show ?

Life__Goes__On

Yes, doesn't seem much call for it

(OT an aircraft sill can't legally take off without an ashtray on board)

Butts

Life__Goes__On said:

Yes, doesn't seem much call for it

(OT an aircraft sill can't legally take off without an ashtray on board)

Well I did try !!!
For me the discussion is not nuanced enough on here. People are asking basically the same questions albeit about a different provider and getting the same answers.
We need to go beyond this and look at the Legal rammifications and how to challenge unfair terms in contracts amongst other things.
p.s with regard to the Ashtray is that a wind up ? If not where is it kept so I can volunteer on my next flight to be a tester to determine it's effectiveness !!

Thrugelmir

 Butts said:

I for one think this could help to reassure people in all sorts of circumstances of their rights and the action they should or should not take.

Be easy to make the totally wrong call. Simply aggravating an already difficult time. People are primarily interested in their own situations not those of others. Time is required to let the dust settle and ascertain the long term damage caused to the entire travel hospitality and leisure industries. Bail outs if required will require Government funding. This funding will then be recovered/repaid by a levy on future activity. There'll be no free lunch for consumers. 

Life__Goes__On

Never, anything wrong with trying.
Final OT from me.
P.S.  no wind up about the ashtray. It's because a passenger might act legally and light up, so they need a safe method of extinguishing it.
After that they could put the cuffs on that passenger (just to warn you)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/5409448/British-Airways-flight-delayed-by-missing-ashtray.html
Edit reading the bottom line seems like there isn't a rule but if you think about it, it does make sense.

bagand96

The difficulty here is the situation is ever evolving, and nobody can for sure say where it all ends up - even the legal side of things.  There will be legal precedents and test cases, but they will take some time. 

This afternoon ABTA have issued an open letter on the subject (thanks to @Westin on another thread) https://www.abta.com/sites/default/files/2020-04/Mark%20Tanzer%20open%20letter%20200420.pdf

A Letter from ABTA’s Chief Executive about holidays that have been affected by the coronavirus crisis

The coronavirus crisis is creating extraordinary difficulties for everyone, in ways that none of us could ever have predicted.  International travel has been brought to a complete standstill by government measures to contain the pandemic and this has led to hundreds of thousands of holidays being affected.   

Here, I want to write to customers of ABTA Members specifically to explain the current situation with refunds for holidays that aren’t going ahead as planned as a result of the pandemic, and to ask for your support.

Many customers have rebooked their holidays for a future date, but I completely understand why those who have asked for a refund may feel frustrated and concerned at the amount of time it is taking. In normal circumstances the rules to provide a refund for a package holiday within 14 days work well. But these are not normal circumstances and the 14 day refund rule is impossible for the majority of companies to stick to.

Many travel agents and tour operators are unable to provide immediate cash refunds because they have not yet received money back from airlines and hotels around the world that may have temporarily closed.

It’s in nobody’s interests for normally healthy travel businesses to go under. As well as the loss of thousands of jobs, the Government-backed ATOL financial protection scheme would be overwhelmed by a large-scale failure of businesses and it would take many more months for customers to get a refund.

The European Commission, which is responsible for the relevant regulations, has advised Member states to find “flexible solutions” to demands for refunds on cancelled holidays during the crisis.  Many other European countries with similar challenges have already taken action to support businesses while protecting customer rights. 

Despite our pleas for support, the UK Government has so far failed to act.  For this reason, to provide some order to the chaos brought about by the current crisis, ABTA has developed temporary guidelines for dealing with refunds for its Members and their customers, where Members are financially unable to provide an immediate cash refund. These are based on a system of financially-protected Refund Credit Notes where the customer’s fundamental right to a refund for a package holiday is preserved, as set out by law.

This type of system is similar to those introduced in many other countries and is the framework under which ABTA will guide its Members and hold them to account. 

Notwithstanding the issuing of Refund Credit Notes, ABTA’s expectation is that Members should refund customers as soon as they are able to.

This crisis will pass, and I’m sure like me you want to ensure that when it does we have a healthy and competitive travel industry able to provide you with the choice of holidays that you deserve.

Thank you,
 
Mark Tanzer

Interesting that it says the European Commission have told member states to find "flexible solutions."   Whatever anyone thinks about the travel industry at this time, I find it difficult to believe ABTA would lie about in an open letter and press release.