Rights of a ‘Permitted Occupant’

conner478

Hello

I have a problem with my flatmate and need some advice.

In the contract it says The shorthold tenancy agreement is made between A. the landlord and B. the tenant or C. the permitted occupant. I’m the permitted occupant. My name is listed on the contract as the permitted occupant. 

It also says on the contract “Permitted Occupier”, or “Licensee” means any person permitted by the Landlord to live in the Property but not named as the Tenant in the Tenancy Agreement. That person will be bound by all the obligations of the Tenancy Agreement but will have no rights as the Tenant and will not be liable to pay rent”

I have already paid 12 months rent upfront to the estate agents as well as 50% share of the deposit. I have my own bedroom in the house. With these facts am I legally considered as a permitted occupant or as a tenant?

The reason behind my questions is because my flatmate and I have fallen out. He’s imposing all kind of rules on me. Many of the rules seem quite ridiculous for example he wants me to leave the house when his child comes round for a few days every week. He also said If you are unable to apply these rules then I will be in the position of needing to end your permitted occupancy and find a new tenant.

Is he legally entitled to impose these rules on me and can he evict me or is that something only the landlord can do?

He’s also threatened that if I don’t follow these rules he’ll change the locks and I’m worried that even if I do follow these rules he will still change the locks. If I am indeed considered to be a permitted occupier in the eyes of the law would he be able to lock me out of the house?

Hope you can help

[Deleted User]

conner478 said:

Hello

I have a problem with my flatmate and need some advice.

In the contract it says The shorthold tenancy agreement is made between A. the landlord and B. the tenant or C. the permitted occupant. I’m the permitted occupant. My name is listed on the contract as the permitted occupant. 

It also says on the contract “Permitted Occupier”, or “Licensee” means any person permitted by the Landlord to live in the Property but not named as the Tenant in the Tenancy Agreement. That person will be bound by all the obligations of the Tenancy Agreement but will have no rights as the Tenant and will not be liable to pay rent”

I have already paid 12 months rent upfront to the estate agents as well as 50% share of the deposit. I have my own bedroom in the house. With these facts am I legally considered as a permitted occupant or as a tenant?

The reason behind my questions is because my flatmate and I have fallen out. He’s imposing all kind of rules on me. Many of the rules seem quite ridiculous for example he wants me to leave the house when his child comes round for a few days every week. He also said If you are unable to apply these rules then I will be in the position of needing to end your permitted occupancy and find a new tenant.

Is he legally entitled to impose these rules on me and can he evict me or is that something only the landlord can do?

He’s also threatened that if I don’t follow these rules he’ll change the locks and I’m worried that even if I do follow these rules he will still change the locks. If I am indeed considered to be a permitted occupier in the eyes of the law would he be able to lock me out of the house?

Hope you can help

I’m assuming that the letting agent you paid a deposit to and pay rent to is employed by A and not B which I would say makes you a tenant of A regardless of what’s written on the contract. This means B could physically change the locks but you’d have just as much right to change then too. How did you find this room? Who advertised it because it sounds like someone has messed up. 

That’s what I think the legal position is, the pragmatic solution is to request the rent you’ve paid in advance back and find somewhere else to live. 

[Deleted User]

Sounds like a weird set-up, if you are not in a close relationship with your flatmate!

It sounds like the sort of arrangement that a landlord would use when he had rented a flat to a couple, one of whom had an income/good credit record,, and the other half really didn't!  Or similarly, when a landlord rented a flat to one person who then moved their partner in, and they didn't want the partner to have full tenancy rights.

theartfullodger

You, me, anyone else don't know what your real status is - are you tenant on "permitted occupier".  Just because there's a piece of paper saying you are permitted occupier doesn;t mean you are - see in particular the case of Street V Mountford -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_v_Mountford

.

"""" Street v Mountford [1985] UKHL 4 is an English land law case from the House of Lords. It set out principles to determine whether someone who occupied a property had a tenancy (i.e. a lease), or only a licence. This mattered for the purpose of statutory tenant rights to a reasonable rent, and had a wider significance as a lease had "proprietary" status and would bind third parties.""""

So if he tried to evict and/or change locks, take him to court (yes I know that's tough at the moment) and see what a judge would decide from the EXACT full wording of your agreement and the actions of both you & the landlord.

My favourite part of the Judge's ruling...""""The manufacture of a five pronged implement for manual digging results in a fork even if the manufacturer, unfamiliar with the English language, insists that he intended to make and has made a spade.""""

I think very good chance you are a tenant.  And send link on this thread to the dodgy fiddling landlord. Wonder what else he is fiddling - tax, safety, insurance, permission from lender to rent the place out??

And call Shelter, the experts in these things, 0808 800 4444

Good luck!

Artful: Landlord since 2000

conner478

Lover_of_Lycra said:

conner478 said:

Hello

I have a problem with my flatmate and need some advice.

In the contract it says The shorthold tenancy agreement is made between A. the landlord and B. the tenant or C. the permitted occupant. I’m the permitted occupant. My name is listed on the contract as the permitted occupant. 

It also says on the contract “Permitted Occupier”, or “Licensee” means any person permitted by the Landlord to live in the Property but not named as the Tenant in the Tenancy Agreement. That person will be bound by all the obligations of the Tenancy Agreement but will have no rights as the Tenant and will not be liable to pay rent”

I have already paid 12 months rent upfront to the estate agents as well as 50% share of the deposit. I have my own bedroom in the house. With these facts am I legally considered as a permitted occupant or as a tenant?

The reason behind my questions is because my flatmate and I have fallen out. He’s imposing all kind of rules on me. Many of the rules seem quite ridiculous for example he wants me to leave the house when his child comes round for a few days every week. He also said If you are unable to apply these rules then I will be in the position of needing to end your permitted occupancy and find a new tenant.

Is he legally entitled to impose these rules on me and can he evict me or is that something only the landlord can do?

He’s also threatened that if I don’t follow these rules he’ll change the locks and I’m worried that even if I do follow these rules he will still change the locks. If I am indeed considered to be a permitted occupier in the eyes of the law would he be able to lock me out of the house?

Hope you can help

I’m assuming that the letting agent you paid a deposit to and pay rent to is employed by A and not B which I would say makes you a tenant of A regardless of what’s written on the contract. This means B could physically change the locks but you’d have just as much right to change then too. How did you find this room? Who advertised it because it sounds like someone has messed up. 

That’s what I think the legal position is, the pragmatic solution is to request the rent you’ve paid in advance back and find somewhere else to live. 

Yes, the letting agency is employed by A the landlord and I paid the rent to the letting agency.

A bit more info, my flatmate and I were friends. We both wanted to rent a place but couldn’t afford to rent our own place so we decided to share a house together. Initially I was going to be the lead tenant because I was the higher wage earner but when the contract needed to be signed I was overseas and couldn’t get back to the U.K. My friend signed the contract with his father as the guarantor. His father doesn’t know me so requested I pay my share of rent upfront to the estate agents which I did. He obviously didn’t want to be liable for my rent which I thought was fair enough. 

theartfullodger

You've paid rent to agent (who acts legally for the landlord) so also IMHO you are landlord's tenant.  How would you prove you paid agent - bank transfer??

conner478

theartfullodger said:

You've paid rent to agent (who acts legally for the landlord) so you are landlord's tenant.  How would you prove you paid agent - bank transfer??

Hi
Yes I have email correspondence from the estate agent and also bank transfer proof. Also, I accidentally paid 13 months rent upfront so I also have email correspondence and a bank transfer from the estate agent paying me back for the extra month I paid.

conner478

theartfullodger said:

You, me, anyone else don't know what your real status is - are you tenant on "permitted occupier".  Just because there's a piece of paper saying you are permitted occupier doesn;t mean you are - see in particular the case of Street V Mountford -

.

"""" Street v Mountford case from the House of Lords. It set out principles to determine whether someone who occupied a property had a tenancy (i.e. a lease), or only a licence. This mattered for the purpose of statutory tenant rights to a reasonable rent, and had a wider significance as a lease had "proprietary" status and would bind third parties.""""

So if he tried to evict and/or change locks, take him to court (yes I know that's tough at the moment) and see what a judge would decide from the EXACT full wording of your agreement and the actions of both you & the landlord.

My favourite part of the Judge's ruling...""""The manufacture of a five pronged implement for manual digging results in a fork even if the manufacturer, unfamiliar with the English language, insists that he intended to make and has made a spade.""""

I think very good chance you are a tenant.  And send link on this thread to the dodgy fiddling landlord. Wonder what else he is fiddling - tax, safety, insurance, permission from lender to rent the place out??

And call Shelter, the experts in these things, 0808 800 4444

Good luck!

Artful: Landlord since 2000

Thanks for those links. That’s a great quote from the judge.

Does the tenant have the right to impose house rules on me which I have to follow? He’s threatening to kick me out if I don’t follow them. Most are ridiculous such as no alcohol in the house, no friends or partners allowed round, also he wants me to leave the house when his son comes round. 

[Deleted User]

In usual times, I have a lodger.  He pays rent to me for his room.   Then I pay rent for the whole property to my landlord, the property owner.  My lodger would NEVER pay rent to the property owner because there is no financial relationship between them.  They will never even know each other's names or bank details.  (If I tried telling my landlord the name of my lodger, he'd say "Why are you telling me this?").

Whereas in your situation, by paying rent directly to the landlord you've established a direct financial relationship with him, and you and your flatmate have effectively become joint tenants.

So, I suggest you might like to point out to your flatmate that practically speaking you are both tenants, because you have both paid rent to the landlord.   No matter what the contract says.

Then give him a long list of YOUR rules.   And tell him he'd better stick to them - or else!!!

greatcrested

I agree with previous posters.

* the wording on the contract would make you a Permitted Occuper with few rights. You would effectively be the tenant's (B's) lodger, and he could impose house rules on you, and evict you easily.

* but the facts of the case contradict this. You are not paying rent to B, so you are not his lodger. Indeed, you are paying rent to A (via A's agent), and A is non-resident so you are A's tenant. Out of interest - how much rent are you paying (have you paid) to A? Is it 50% of the rent stated on the contract?

It seems clear that you and B are in reality joint tenants, both equally liable for the full rent stated on the contract.

B therefore cannot impose house rules on you, any more than you can impose house rules on him. And he cannot evict you.

conner478

greatcrested said:

I agree with previous posters.

* the wording on the contract would make you a Permitted Occuper with few rights. You would effectively be the tenant's (B's) lodger, and he could impose house rules on you, and evict you easily.

* but the facts of the case contradict this. You are not paying rent to B, so you are not his lodger. Indeed, you are paying rent to A (via A's agent), and A is non-resident so you are A's tenant. Out of interest - how much rent are you paying (have you paid) to A? Is it 50% of the rent stated on the contract?

It seems clear that you and B are in reality joint tenants, both equally liable for the full rent stated on the contract.

B therefore cannot impose house rules on you, any more than you can impose house rules on him. And he cannot evict you.

Hi 
I’m paying 50% of the rent that’s stated on the contract. In fact I’ve paid 12 months rent up front because B The Tenant is a low wage earner. He needed his father as the guarantor. His father didn’t want to be financially liable for me so I bank transferred 12 months rent to the estate agents. I’ve also paid 50% of the deposit to the estate agents.