Rights of a ‘Permitted Occupant’

[Deleted User]

conner478 said:

theartfullodger said:

You, me, anyone else don't know what your real status is - are you tenant on "permitted occupier".  Just because there's a piece of paper saying you are permitted occupier doesn;t mean you are - see in particular the case of Street V Mountford -

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"""" Street v Mountford case from the House of Lords. It set out principles to determine whether someone who occupied a property had a tenancy (i.e. a lease), or only a licence. This mattered for the purpose of statutory tenant rights to a reasonable rent, and had a wider significance as a lease had "proprietary" status and would bind third parties.""""

So if he tried to evict and/or change locks, take him to court (yes I know that's tough at the moment) and see what a judge would decide from the EXACT full wording of your agreement and the actions of both you & the landlord.

My favourite part of the Judge's ruling...""""The manufacture of a five pronged implement for manual digging results in a fork even if the manufacturer, unfamiliar with the English language, insists that he intended to make and has made a spade.""""

I think very good chance you are a tenant.  And send link on this thread to the dodgy fiddling landlord. Wonder what else he is fiddling - tax, safety, insurance, permission from lender to rent the place out??

And call Shelter, the experts in these things, 0808 800 4444

Good luck!

Artful: Landlord since 2000

Thanks for those links. That’s a great quote from the judge.

Does the tenant have the right to impose house rules on me which I have to follow? He’s threatening to kick me out if I don’t follow them. Most are ridiculous such as no alcohol in the house, no friends or partners allowed round, also he wants me to leave the house when his son comes round. 

If your friend wanted to have these house rules he should have hammered them out with you before moving in together.  I think his rules are unreasonable especially given the UK is in lockdown.  Where does he expect you to go when his son comes round if you're not meant to be going anywhere?  Good luck to him finding any housemate in the future who wants to live with such rules.

Maybe bake a cake, sit down together over a nice cup of tea and a slice of that cake.  Explain to him that irrespective of what the contract says you are a tenant of A and not his lodger.  You pay rent to A's agent and therefore A is your landlord, not him.  

[Deleted User]

Has your former friend always been like this (i.e. rigid about alcohol, friends etc)? 

I am just wondering if something has changed.  Has someone raised concerns over what could happen to his son while he is staying with him?  Sometimes people can be illogical, but usually there's a reason for something, even if no one else agrees with that reason lol. 

Before giving up, I'd try to talk with the friend and figure why he feels uncomfortable enough to 'make these rules' so you can figure out a compromise.  But .., with the understanding that you are a tenant and have just as much right to be there as he does.  Try and work with him, but without losing your ability to live as you want to.  Perhaps agree no friends, alcohol etc while his son is there, as long as its of limited duration.

tealady

Agree 100% with deannatrois.
Also read your tenancy agreement to see if there is a break clause. Check if you can leave (and how much notice you have to give). Make sure you would be entitled to any advance rent to be returned.
That way if you can leave you know you have an "out" if things get too bad. 

greatcrested

tealady said:

Agree 100% with deannatrois.
Also read your tenancy agreement to see if there is a break clause. Check if you can leave (and how much notice you have to give). Make sure you would be entitled to any advance rent to be returned.
That way if you can leave you know you have an "out" if things get too bad. 

Any Break Clause would apply to the tenancy as a whole, not just the OP. So

a) the housemate/joint tenant would also have to sign the notice to activate the clause and

b) the housemate/joint tenant would also have to move out, and

c) any refund of advance rent would be problematic....