Vodafone charged me 60£ for line installation and won't refund me

jacoscar

Hello,
I moved into my current home last year; the previous owner had a BT or TalkTalk broadband; when I moved in I activated Virgin Media, then after 12 months, I switched to Vodafone; before ordering the broadband I checked with them if the 60£ line installation fee was payable even if there was already a line at the property

Your Chat Transcript

The following is a record of your online chat with Vodafone today

Vodafone : Thanks for choosing to chat with us. An agent will be with you shortly

Vodafone : Hello you're through to Vodafone at Vodafone how's your day going so far?

ME : great thanks

Vodafone : Glad to hear it ME, how can i help you?

ME : I was comparing broadbands on uswitch, and I selected Vodafone Superfast 2 with no setup cost for 23.95 £/month; however when I'm brought to the vodafone website I can see there is an upfront cost of 60£

Vodafone : Let me have a look, can i take your postcode. Sometimes the third party websites are incorrect, and they make the deal looks as though there are no costs when there are

ME : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Vodafone : Are you an existing Vodafone customer?

ME : no

ME : (I have had vodafone broadband in the past)

Vodafone : Thats okay, so i can see there are fees that would apply as an engineer would need to come out and install an OpenReach line into the property, the good news is that our engineer fees are one of the cheapest on the market, as BT themselves charge £120

ME : I think there is already a line at the property

Vodafone : If there is already a line at the property ad the engineer doesn't need to do anything then you would get a full refund of the £60

Vodafone : *and

ME : ok, I see

Vodafone : Also i just want to make you aware of a few things applying through a third party website ME.

Vodafone : If you apply through a third party site, i know the deals look appealing as they sometimes come with little incentives such as Vouchers, but in reality, it isn't all its made out to be, as with us your bill will remain at £23.95 for the 18 month contract but with a third party website they will increase your monthly payments up to £3 or more after 2-3 months, which means you would pay £165+ with them than if you were to come directly through us, so i understand the deals and incentives look appealing on the third party site, but in reality, if you do want to save money, you would be better coming through ourselves directly

OK, so an OpenReach engineer did actually came, he didn't actually enter into the house because of the social distancing rules, so he just handed me an oscillator that I connected to the master socket; he came back 10 minutes later and said "all sorted". I assume he just connected my line to the Vodafone infrastructure at the street cabinet and that's it.

Now (after 3 weeks) I just contacted Vodafone again and asked whether I would get the 60£ refunded as no line was installed (just connected); they said the engineer had to do some repair on the street cabinet and because of this, I am not entitled to a refund.

Here's today chat transcript

Your Chat Transcript

The following is a record of your online chat with Vodafone today

Vodafone : Thanks for choosing to chat with us. An agent will be with you shortly

Vodafone : Hello

Vodafone : How may I help you ?

ME : Hello, I activated Vodafone Broadband recently; I paid 60£ in advance for "line installation", but there was already a line at the property; when am I getting the 60£ back?

Vodafone : I would like to inform you Jacoppo that the charges are for the line installation as well the engineer visit as well however really sorry to say this however we are unable to refund the installation fee.

Vodafone : I am really sorry for this .

ME : I was informed by one of your collegues before the order, that the 60£ fee would be refunded if the engineer came and didn't need to do anything

ME : I have the chat transcript in front of me

ME : Reference Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxDATE/TIME: xxxxxxxxxx 08:54:27

Vodafone : Let me check this

Vodafone : PLease help me with the Vodafone account number.

ME : xxxxxxxxxx

Vodafone : Thanks

Vodafone : Please confirm your full name .

ME : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Vodafone : PLease answer the questions so that I can access your account ,

Vodafone : How many connections do you have with Vodafone?

ME : 1

Vodafone : What is the last 2 digits of the sort code the direct debit is taken from?

ME : XX

Vodafone : What is the email address registered?

ME : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Vodafone : Thank you

Vodafone : That takes care of security

Vodafone : Allow me few minutes please to check the details

Vodafone : Thank you for waiting

Vodafone : AS I've checked and can see that the line that is on your premise a a line that needs to be repaired on the street cabinet and hence the engineer must have been visited the street cabinet to make some changes in the line so that the line could be activated for oyou however I am really sorry however the installation fee that is of 60 p is of the engineer visit as there has been some work to be done on the street cabinet.however I am unable to refund the installtion fee of 60pounds.

ME : but the engineer didn't do anything at the property

ME : why do I have to pay if there was a damaged on the openreach cabinet?

Vodafone : The engineer must have visited to repair the line and to check if everything is in place to get the line activated for you .

ME : I was told otherwise before the order anyway

Vodafone : I understand this however as the engineer may have not visited the premise as there must have been the BT master socket in your premise however the engineer must have worked on the street cabinet to install the line or repair the line .

Vodafone : However the installation fee that you have ben charged is for the engineer visit and the work that has been required to activate the line .

ME : I have switch broadband operator before and this is the first time I get charged for work done on infrastructure that I don't own

Vodafone : I am really sorry if you are feeling this way however all the work that has been done on the street cabinet is to install a line and to repair the line if the line is already existed, and hence you have been charged for this ME

Is this correct? Do I have to pay for damages to an existing line (which I understand belongs to OpenReach)?

pphillips

No, if you have not had a new line installed you don't need to pay for installation.
However, the question is really whether you have to pay for line activation. This will depend on the terms and conditions of the deal you signed up for with Vodafone.
I suggest you make a complaint as you can then go to CISAS for adjudication after 8 weeks.

jacoscar

I'm sure it was described as a "line installation", fee, but I don't have any contract on my Vodafone Online Area.
I can only find evidence that the fee has actually been scrapped on 7th April (I've ordered the service on 26th March) 
The chat operator also described it as a installation fee (not activation fee)

pphillips

I've taken this from the Vodafone website:
"A new line provision charge of £60 may also apply if you don’t currently have a BT Openreach line at your address. Other upfront service and maintenance charges may apply – these are set out in the detailed Vodafone Broadband and Home Phone Price Plan:

Vodafone Home Broadband and Phone Service & Maintenance charges as of 10/06/2019.
Description / Superfast Charge:
Missed engineer appointment charge £110.00
Amend Order (prior to install) £15.00
Late cancellation of order - any time or day after 12pm (noon) two working days before your scheduled visit £60.00
Connection Charge ( new line provision) £60.00
Connection Charge (for Fibre only) £0.00
Fault within customer premises - first hour charge £115.00
Fault within customer premises - hourly charge (chargeable after the first hour) £52.00
Customer requested service visit - phone socket relocation £130.00
Customer requested service visit - additional phone socket relocation £65.00
Replacement Vodafone Broadband router £72.00
Failure to return Vodafone Broadband router (for cancelled orders)/returned in damaged state (other than fair wear and tear) £72.00
SureSignal discount removal (for cancelled orders) £40.00
Special Fault Investigation £150.00 and/or + Special Fault Investigation - Internal wiring issue £35.00 and/or + Special Fault Investigation - Internal equipment issue £22.00
Transfer of account ownership £20.00
Home phone number change Vodafone Broadband router charge £25.00
Vodafone Broadband router P&P £0.00 "

Therefore, it appears you have nothing to pay.

mnbvcxz

I had this argument with plus.net the other week on a house that was changing tenants. Look I said the previous tenant had bt fibre broadband (fttc) only a week ago, then they took the account with them. There is still a dial tone, (no number though) and the line test number works. How can it need a reconnection fee? Tough they said. When the fibre broadband ended the exchange must have pulled the wires out. Quiet line test means nothing. It shows up as needing the line reconnecting so you have to pay £50. In fairness it was all the isp's that showed it needing reconnecting with a charge, not just plus.net. 

It seems to be a scam I'm afraid. Every time a phone line transfers to new people they are going to charge £50, even if its only disconnected for a few days. 

pphillips

mnbvcxz said:

I had this argument with plus.net the other week on a house that was changing tenants. Look I said the previous tenant had bt fibre broadband (fttc) only a week ago, then they took the account with them. There is still a dial tone, (no number though) and the line test number works. How can it need a reconnection fee? Tough they said. When the fibre broadband ended the exchange must have pulled the wires out. Quiet line test means nothing. It shows up as needing the line reconnecting so you have to pay £50. In fairness it was all the isp's that showed it needing reconnecting with a charge, not just plus.net. 

It seems to be a scam I'm afraid. Every time a phone line transfers to new people they are going to charge £50, even if its only disconnected for a few days. 

I think you're talking about the activation fee, which is either free or charged separately to the new line installation fee. I don't think that ISP's can bundle the two charges together as an "installation fee".

iniltous

A socket existing in a property isn’t all that’s required to avoid installation charges, if the line was intact and all the way back to the exchange and the Telco identified that and arranged a start of a stopped service, then an Openreach engineer isn’t needed externally, if the line isn’t  intact, and intervention in the network is necessary (even if the existing socket was reused) then that engineers time needs to be paid for, calling it a ‘new’ line probably isn’t the best way to describe it, better to think of it as external work required or no external work required to get the line working...
If someone moves into an address with an OR socket, and there is already a tone ( soft dialtone , allows no calls apart from emergency and customer service calls ) then the line is obviously all the way back to the exchange , hence no external work necessary, provided the correct order is raised, so it isn’t a scam , in the OP case they accept that a OR engineer called, so the charge is justified, the only scam in effect is in the desperate need ISPs seem to have regarding having the lowest possible monthly price , by charging whatever they can as one off charges, £10 router delivery , £50 activation fee, that £60 if paid over a 12 month term would be £5/month, but many  people would buy a £25 month deal ( with £60 upfront ) rejecting a £28 a month with nothing upfront as ‘its £3 cheaper’ but it isn’t  necessarily so, arguably the £28 is £2/month cheaper 

jacoscar

iniltous said:

A socket existing in a property isn’t all that’s required to avoid installation charges, if the line was intact and all the way back to the exchange and the Telco identified that and arranged a start of a stopped service, then an Openreach engineer isn’t needed externally, if the line isn’t  intact, and intervention in the network is necessary (even if the existing socket was reused) then that engineers time needs to be paid for, calling it a ‘new’ line probably isn’t the best way to describe it, better to think of it as external work required or no external work required to get the line working...
If someone moves into an address with an OR socket, and there is already a tone ( soft dialtone , allows no calls apart from emergency and customer service calls ) then the line is obviously all the way back to the exchange , hence no external work necessary, provided the correct order is raised, so it isn’t a scam , in the OP case they accept that a OR engineer called, so the charge is justified, the only scam in effect is in the desperate need ISPs seem to have regarding having the lowest possible monthly price , by charging whatever they can as one off charges, £10 router delivery , £50 activation fee, that £60 if paid over a 12 month term would be £5/month, but many  people would buy a £25 month deal ( with £60 upfront ) rejecting a £28 a month with nothing upfront as ‘its £3 cheaper’ but it isn’t  necessarily so, arguably the £28 is £2/month cheaper 

I'll likely change provider every 12-18 months (depending on contract length) as it's always cheaper to switch. Should I expect every provider to charge me for line activation each time I switch provider?

Why am I responsible for something that belongs to OpenReach? What if whatever was broken at the street cabinet now breaks every 3 months?
 

littleboo

I doubt it was actually broken, Vodafone agents aren't going to be particularly knowledgeable about the detail of the infrastructure

onomatopoeia99

jacoscar said:

Why am I responsible for something that belongs to OpenReach? What if whatever was broken at the street cabinet now breaks every 3 months?
 

What's likely to have happened while you were with VM is that your line back to the exchange was disconnected as it was not in use and allocated to another household (that may, for example, have just returned from VM).  So you had no circuit back to the exchange and an Openreach technician was needed. 

They won't, or at least shouldn't, disconnect a line that is in use, but a line that is not in use is fair game when they need one.  No-one is paying wholesale line rental on it so there is no contractual agreement with you that it will remain connected,

If you want to avoid reconnection fees, stick with one network or the other (Openreach or VM).

iniltous

In my comment I specifically said if any external work is required, if you are simply moving between Openreach based  providers , no external work is required , any work needed is exchange work, the wholesale cost for this is very small so most providers absorb it , as a cost to get your business, if you left an OR provider , went to Virgin ( for example ) for a year or two, then wanted service from an OR based provider again , then external work may well be required and a charge is justified in that case