zipcar ignored my request for appeal a PCN charge (No parking)

mmagan

Hello all,
I have been looking all over for information on how to do in this situation. Hope anyone can help.
I received an email from zipcar on the 6 of April notifying me of a PCN. I replied back asking them to send the lease to the council so I could deal with it and appeal. (PCN dated 11.March.20) 
Traffic infraction: Council set up some signals that stop us from turning left to our residential area up to 16h Mon-Fri. I was going there to park the car. No exceptions for residents? I live right around the corner. Literally 1 min after that turn. 
They replied the next day saying that the council was right and they will make the payment from my account. No other option given. 
I replied I wanted them to pass the lease and wanted to appeal. 
they just ignored me and I see the charge in my account.
what can I do?

nosferatu1001

What does your agreement with zip car state?
exact wording. No arguments, you need to know what you agreed to 

Coupon-mad

You probably can't do anything as this wasn't yours to appeal, sadly,

Differently from a private parking charge that a driver can appeal and the PCn then stays with them alone, as it's a Council PCN it is the liability of the owner (ZipCar).  Even if you'd had a windscreen PCN and appealed that as driver, the second stage knocks you out of the picture with a Notice to Owner that you can't then appeal, and you can't go to adjudication. 

Only the owner can, with a Council PCN.

nosferatu1001

Not true c-m. Assuming zip car gave the standard wording the pcn is cancelled and a new one issued to the hirer.  

As I said before, paying up denies art6 rights and enforcing such a term to the detriment of the consumer is unlawful 

Coupon-mad

Ah yes, that's true if they transferred liability to the hirer.

nosferatu1001

Which they absolutely should do. 

There's no reason not to do so

op - get yourself to pepipoo as well, but I'd say see what your contract says and tell us 

mmagan

I looked for the terms and conditions all over in the website. could not find it. 
first email was:

"A. (Zipcar UK) Apr 6, 4:47 AM CDT Dear ---, We have received a Penalty Charge Notice Q-----. Unfortunately, having consulted our records I am sorry to inform you that responsibility has been attributed to your account. The charge was issued during your reservation for traffic at 15:47 on 2020-03-11. Your trip ran from Mar 11, 2020 2:39 PM to Mar 11, 2020 3:53 PM. We will pay the £65.00 charge in five days and will add this and a £15.00 processing fee to your bill then. The processing fee covers the cost of receiving, reviewing and paying the PCN on your behalf. If you feel this Notice was issued incorrectly and would like to appeal it, please contact us by responding to this email within the 5 day window. If we do not hear from you, the PCN and the processing fee will be paid and settled by Zipcar in 5 days’ time. So, if you are satisfied that the PCN has been issued correctly, no further action is required by you. Kind regards, Ahmad‍, The Zipcar Team" I replied telling them i wanted to appeal:  their second email the next day:  "Zipcar Operational Support (Zipcar UK) Apr 7, 4:57 AM CDT Dear ----, Thank you for getting in touch regarding Penalty Charge Notice Q-------. Allow me to clarify that this fine has been issued because Zipcar Flex G---- was seen being driven in contravention by failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (Motor vehicles) during your booking on the 11/03/2020. Unfortunately, the councils are quite strict in their enforcement of traffic fines and because this contravention occurred during your booking this fine was issued and attributed to your account correctly.  I’m afraid we will therefore need to pay and apply the associated charges. I understand that this is a frustrating situation, but we need you to remember that PCNs are not issued by Zipcar, but by the local authority. We try to accommodate our members as best we can, but we, as a company need to recover the costs of these fines from the members responsible. Kind regards, Alex Zipcar Member Services" I again asked them to let me appeal and they replied:  "Zipcar Operational Support (Zipcar UK) Apr 7, 8:33 AM CDT Dear ----, Thank you for contacting us. I understand that you are a resident to the area but again that does not negate the traffic rules that have to be enforced. As per the member contract 11.4 The right to appeal, or transfer liability, on any traffic or parking charge issued by any authority or body belongs to Zipcar and will be at Zipcar's absolute discretion. I understand that this is a frustrating situation, but we need you to remember that PCNs are not issued by Zipcar, but by the local authority. We try to accommodate our members as best we can, but we, as a company need to recover the costs of these fines from the members responsible. Kind Regards, Zipcar Operations Support" I do not think this is fair. and I have many arguments to appeal this but zipcar already charged me this. I am not sure if it is paid to the council already> dont have any evidence of that. Found something from Pepipoo.  hackney have "School protection scheme" that is the reason of those signals prohibiting the left turn. but there is exception for permit holders. Zip car is a permit holder and I use this service of share car also because i can park in my parking area. Also, Hackney have a document with many exceptions that Hackney council can take in consideration to remove the PCN. if I was able to apply. However, zipcar did not let me exercise that right. exception for permit holders.  loading or unloading goods. This area is blue area for par low emissions cars.

nosferatu1001

So again
you can't just throw hands up. You need to find out exactly what your contract states. You must have a copy of the agreement. Nuts if you don't. 

You need to see if it has the standard line about accepting responsibility for actual fines. If so, then zip car has removed your rights to representation against fines. 

mmagan

thank you nosferatu. I thought hands up was a way to say thanks. right?
How can they remove my rights of representation? anyway, I can't find the general terms and conditions anywhere in their website. Also they do not offer any kind if FAQ regarding PCN. I contacted them asking them for this. meanwhile I replied again and told them they are charging my account without my consent. 
see what they say. I am really angry and frustrated about this. obvious as you can see. 

thebigmun

Hi everyone, 

 Yes the same happened to me regarding a 'moving violation'.  I believe I have acceptable grounds to appeal, as the sign was not clearly visible and its a new restricted access lane they have just introduced. I have sent a mail to zip car stating the Article 6 right of representation, with no reply yet. 

They have already charged me the £65 plus '£15 admin fee' yesterday, 2 weeks after the contravention occurred and when they were notified.  From my understanding we only have 2 weeks from the date of the incident to appeal.  I have done so via Croydon's PCN representation form on their website, however as I am not the registered keeper of the car I'm not sure what the next steps are..

Here are the terms and conditions of Zip Car as requested by @nosferatu1001   

www.members.zipcar.com/en-GB/london/member-contract

www.zipcar.com/member-agreement-2-4-2020

I don't see any mention of limitation of appeal regarding fines/PCN .

If anyone has had any similar dealings with Zip Car do please advise?? 

Thanks so much!

Le_Kirk

Two things - 1. It's always better (and forum etiquette) to start your own thread and 2.  Is this a council (PENALTY CHARGE notice), if so you are better off on a website call pepipoo.  If it is private parking company, start your own thread and give full details.