Money Moral Dilemma: Should I claim for a cancelled flight when airlines are struggling?

lakesider52

Without a doubt you should claim. You have entered a contract with the airline and for whatever reason, they have failed to deliver their side of the contract. Bear in mind their attitude is to find any way possible to avoid making refunds so there are no "moral" issues here for me.

SashikoStitcher

Alexw1_2 said:

You’re entitled to claim - that’s part of the insurance cover that the airlines will / should have ... happy to take the premiums, should be happy to pay out 

That’s not right Alex. Airlines can’t insure against their liability to pay compensation for delayed and cancelled flights under Regulation EC 261/2004. Such cover is not offered by insurers as it would be contrary to public policy- the whole point of the Regulation was to penalise airlines for bad practice, and that would be undermined if they could just pass on the risk to insurers. Airlines do of course have liability insurance which pays out if you are injured in an accident or claim against them for something like discrimination, but Regulation 261 liability is expressly carved out of that cover.  (I work in the insurance industry). 

So any compensation payment is coming straight from their bottom line/cash flow. The thing about the fixed compensation sums under Regulation 261 is that they often far outweigh the ticket price and/or the actual loss/inconvenience suffered by the passenger, as in OP’s case. (Sometimes it is the other way round, of course). In the current very dire circumstances airlines are at serious risk of failure. Ask yourself if you’d prefer the cash in your pocket now or less choice and higher prices in the future? 

Also, don’t forget that you have 6 years to bring your claim, so a good option would be to wait it out until the airline’s future is clearer and reassess then. (I am assuming that you are talking about a claim that was not related to Covid-19 and would not, therefore, be one tbat the airline was entitled to reject in the grounds of extraordinary circumstances). 

It’s also worth mentioning that the biggest current issue for airlines at the moment is not EC 261 compensation but the obligation to refund within 7 days the ticket price of a cancelled flight. Many are trying to push passengers towards rebooking instead of giving a cash refund. Passengers have the right under the Regulation to insist on the cash. Obviously a rebooked flight is no use if the airlines has gone under. However it’s chicken and egg because if everyone insists on their money back the airlines will indeed go under. Therefore, if I had bought a relatively cheap flight and had no immediate cash flow issues of my own (a luxury for many), I would perhaps risk accepting the rebooking offer just as part of the overall collective effort to get us through this coronavirus mess as a society and emerge at the other side with something that vaguely resembles the travel industry that we had before. 

stevej1982

I usually fly with Ryan Air. Not because I like them, it's just they have much better flight times for my destination than other airlines.
I would definitely claim against Ryanair as they have no respect for their customers. If I was flying with another Airline and I felt they had decent ethics, then I probably wouldn't claim. 

Businesses need to remember, loyalty creates loyalty. 

itsml

We have flights only booked with one of the few still operating airlines.  We are being offered an alternative  later flight  which is not possible as our accommodation is no longer available. It’s a crafty ploy,  they are making alternative dates an option, then they won’t have to refund us.   What right do they have to steal our money?  

EimearF

Eligible for what compensation? The cancellation was outwith the airlines control - that means they have to give you somewhere to stay and pay for your food nothing else. 

You opted to avail of free accommodation with family and ate their food. If you bought food you can present a receipt to the airline to be reimbursed but that’s it. You don’t get the money for the hotel you didn’t stay at!

JustJen

My flight was cancelled with BA on  a flight from Tampa - Gatwick on 22/03/20
I had to call BA to re-book a flight. Spent 3 hours on mobile phone. (that charge alone came to £6.00) Finally got a flight to Heathrow via Miami on same day but later time. I booked and paid for hotel for one night (just in case) didn't use it as I just wanted to get home instead. I called before check-in was due to cancel but
No refund was offered. The Hotel closed the following day.
Plus, National Express coach down to Gatwick which also got cancelled. I spent approximately £100 for added expenses just to get home. I am a disabled pensioner and found this journey very hard and stressful. I made a claim for everything including torn and shredded suitcase that got lost and did not reach me until 2 days later.. I received a letter from BA stating that they would not be paying any compensation. So anybody thinking of claiming, don't waste your time. Still waiting to hear from National Express coaches if they will refund me my £38.50. My train from Gatwick to my home was also cancelled so lost that ticket amount too. Made a claim for that too but so far no reply.

Rexton04

Playing devil's advocate, what were you doing out?  Was it an essential journey?  Corona Virus is as yet nobody's fault so claiming for a delayed flight that had very little impact on you seems petty to me.  Personally speaking, I  would let it go

[Deleted User]

P1 said:

I understand you are consumer finance advisers and a bloody good ones at that.  However, you need to do something to teach people the basics of economics.  There are two drivers for someone to asked this question in this thread.  A lack of economic education and/or stupidity.  With most people it is the former of the two and thats why I really think some of you at money saving expert could help here. Most people assume economics is boring and therefore can't be bothered to read about about it and find decent info, therefore never learning.  How can you learn something you're not looking at? 

It would be great if you set something up to explain money, its history and how it has dramatically changed over time.   Most people don't know what money is, yet work for it for somewhere between 10 - 60hrs a week!  Getting into all this and building some investments up has saved me right now so I can weather my 0 pay due to my !!!!!! refusing to furlough me boss.  

I cannot put links on here, but google WFThappenedin1971.  Interesting stuff.  

Most airlines have been the biggest buyer of their own stock since 2008 through stock buy backs.  The share price goes up, hopefully to the share price target or above. The CEO and board members get a large bonus for that behavior.  Dividends paid etc! They then rinse and repeat as they have been for over a decade.   If they had strengthened their balance sheet during the goods and saved for a rainy day they wouldn't be in so much trouble now.  But they wanted those bonuses.  

TAKE THE REFUND FROM THE !!!!!! AIRLINE!!!!!!!!!  THEN READ ABOUT THE CANTILLION EFFECT!!!!!!!!!  MOST AIRLINES WILL BE BAILED OUT BY THE TAX PAYER ANYWAY!!!!!  WE WILL ALL BE GIVING THEM MONEY.  DON'T GIVE MORE!!!!!  Christ! 

If you really want to help someone, take the refund from the airline.  When it comes in to your bank walk to the cash machine.  Withdraw and give it to someone who needs it. Not a !!!!!! airline Jesus!  Sorry. Or you could buy an once of gold for the younger generation in the family off the royal mint website (if they have any in stock)? 

Read about how many high up fortune 500 company staff started retiring over the last year to 18 months.  It was obvious to them an economic crises was coming and a lot have bugged out.  Corona was the pin that popped the everything bubble.  Simultaneously a record amount of boomers are about to retire around the Western world.  They were promised more than there is. Their assets will be at very depressed asset values when they retire, yet they will still have to sell them to fund their pensions.  Someone will be buying their stock and property over the next 5 to 10 years for cheap.  They will never earn the money back as a lot will be over 65 already.  Its very unfair.  Pensions buy bonds.   The more riskier bones have a better reward, which in the low interest rate environment of the last 10 years has meant they have had to chase risk just to get a return.  That was not the case 20 years ago!  There is a problem though.  A lot of the bonds are BBB rated.  This is the lowest level of "investment grade" bonds.  If they get downgraded one level they will become CCC or junk bonds.  Again, the pension funds can only legally hold investment grade bonds, meaning again they will become forced sellers at a loss......again.  A lot of large companies are fighting for BBB rating!  I think Ford recently lost its investment grade status. Could be wrong.  

The poster seems like a good person.  Just a misguided one in my view.  Its a classic example of a pleb (I am one too) getting bent over and !!!!!! and not understanding how or why.  Its very frustrating as a fellow pleb to watch.

This is by far the best comment on here!
Take the money and run. I see the moral side, but the airline wouldn't. It is money you are due and the airlines have insurance for this exact reasons. They would refuse to pay you in a heartbeat if given half a chance which is why all the fat cat owners are sitting in the sun pretending to worry about the staff and customer problems.

Just because you don't need it doesn't mean you shouldn't take it. Would you refuse a discount in a shop because could afford the extra 20%? Would you only buy one item in a 2 for 1? Would you tell bank you don't need that PPI claim because after all these years you never missed the money? 
Companies need to learn not to be greedy and share the money between staff at a good proportion rather than massively top heavy and ruining thousands of peoples lives to make a few rich people richer. 

SashikoStitcher

I have just re-read the OP and see that you do say that the return flight was cancelled “due to coronavirus”. I had missed that and assumed you were talking about a cancellation that pre-dated Coronavirus. Coronavirus has been stated by the European Commission to be an “extraordinary circumstance” which means that the fixed compensation would not be available to you. The airline did however retain the obligation to provide you with “care and assistance” while you waited for your rescheduled flight. (Remember the Icelandic volcano eruption? That was also “extraordinary circumstances” but airlines incurred huge “care and assistance” bills putting up stranded passengers all over Europe in circumstances when nobody knew how long the ash would take to clear). 

However with care and assistance the airline can tell you where to stay and cover that cost and/or give you meal vouchers, it’s not up to you to book yourself in somewhere else and expect them to foot the bill- if you do that they have the right to only pay your for reasonable costs. As you, sensibly, went back to stay with relatives you didn’t incur any costs so you don’t have a claim to make, sorry. (Presuming you didn’t pay the relatives for extra food and drink). 

Nonetheless, my earlier advice/opinion stands for anyone who does have a valid compensation claim against an airline at the moment (i.e. a delay or cancellation unconnected to Covid). 

denem

No, just be thankful they got you home. There are others who are experiencing greater traumas at the moment.