Parking Eye Abersoch

eatapeach222

I got a PCN, the appealed through POPLA which I lost, then have now got a LBCCC.  There is a thread on Parking Prankster which shows how bad the signage at this site is and I simply was unaware that this is a pay parking site. 

That page links to planning permissions for the car park, and talks about how the signage possibly doesn't match the planning permissions.  Below is one of my own photos of the signs, they have camouflaged the signs as far as possible to meet environmental concerns which doesn't help the motorist

On reviewing the planning permission to see what was applied for and what is actually there, I found what may be an interesting point.  The application for signage (consent to display advertisement(s)) contains a question about advertisement period.  Is there a planning expert here because to me this permission to display signage expired 2 years ago.   Is this correct?   I cannot see subsequent planning applications for this site.  The planning for the erection of the ANPR camera contains the same time range.

Redx

Parking Eye will issue a court case and we have never seen one where a judge decided it on planning permission, its their view that its down to the council to deal with it

but yes you might win on poor and inadequate signage, but then that should have won at popla, same as others have done

Coupon-mad

I agree, this is a well known scam site with terrible signs hiden in foliage with no lighting, and should have been won at POPLA if you showed pics of the green signs in green trees. 

You can just rinse & repeat as a court defence (suitably adapted) if the Golf Club organisers won't cancel it when you bombard them with complaint emails during lockdown.

D_P_Dance

Here is the post to which I think you refer

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

eatapeach222

D_P_Dance said:

Here is the post to which I think you refer

I can't post links here - but if you search for picture-of-week-abersoch-beach-car-park on google it's that one

eatapeach222

Redx said:

Parking Eye will issue a court case and we have never seen one where a judge decided it on planning permission, its their view that its down to the council to deal with it

but yes you might win on pooor and inadequate signage, but then that should have won at popla, same as others have done

Well it didn't - so my next step is to respond to the LBC

Coupon-mad said:

I agree, this is a well known scam site with terrible signs hiden in foliage with no lighting, and should have been won at POPLA if you showed pics of the green signs in green trees. 

You can just rinse & repeat as a court defence (suitably adapted) if the Golf Club organisers won't cancel it when you bombard them with complaint emails during lockdown.

Do you have a link to a proven defence to a similar one?   I contacted the golf club, not interested at all. 

eatapeach222

Redx said:

Parking Eye will issue a court case and we have never seen one where a judge decided it on planning permission, its their view that its down to the council to deal with it

but yes you might win on pooor and inadequate signage, but then that should have won at popla, same as others have done

Can you appeal a POPLA decision?  

I've asked them for a SAR via their website - does it keep them at bay for 30 days?

My next step is to respond to the LBC with the following - does it look right?  Is there anything I can add at this point to tell them that I know if they go to court I'll bring up the "hidden signs defence"?

I wish to acknowledge that I am in receipt of your letter headed as an LBC (Letter Before County Court Claim)  Ref No xxxxxx, dated the 25/03/2020.

Firstly and for avoidance of any doubt I can confirm that as the registered keeper at the time of the vehicle involved in this alleged parking infringement, I deny that any monies are owed by myself to your company and will vigorously defend such matters in person at any subsequent court hearing.

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide any photographic evidence.  It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence you intend to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.

I believe such action is a clear breach of pre-action obligations set out in Practice Direction Pre Action Conduct. Such action could be construed as leaving myself in the unenviable position of defending such a matter with non disclosure of such documents and placing myself at an unfair disadvantage.

I require you to comply with your obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action

2. An explanation whether you are pursuing me as driver or keeper

3. Whether you are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

4. What the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)

5. A copy of any alleged contract with the driver

6. A plan showing where any signs were displayed

7. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

8. Reference numbers of all relevant Planning Consents (approved and pending) from Gwynedd Council for the operation of the ANPR camera and display of signage.

9. If you have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated. 

10. 
    

With the lack of information provided I am unable to respond in a manner that not only would set out my defence but also would not be in line with Pre Action Protocol.

I am seeking debt advice in regards to this matter.  

I require you to restrict data processing whilst I submit a Subject Access Request (SAR) to your Data Protection Officer (DPO).

I have sent a SAR request via e-mail to you requesting all personal details relating to myself and this alleged parking infringement.  That to also include all images to assist in my defence.

I confirm my correct address for service is blah blah,

Yours faithfully

Umkomaas

Do you have a link to a proven defence to a similar one?

I can't recall an Abersoch golf club case going to a court hearing in the past, and PE have never held back on the litigation front where the landowner has given their permission for PE to sue. It may be that that permission is denied here?

I'd just bide my time and see what PE's next move is. If it's a formal 'Letter of Claim', come back for further advice, if it's a letter from a debt collector, it's almost certain that PE don't have permission to sue. 

Why not run a forum search on the keyword 'Abersoch' which should bring up links to other cases and check if any did proceed to court. 

nosferatu1001

Unkomass - the op says they have a lbccc. First post. 

A sar doesn't hold the. Off of course. Stating you are seeking debt advice does. 

Umkomaas

nosferatu1001 said:

Unkomass - the op says they have a lbccc. First post. 

A sar doesn't hold the. Off of course. Stating you are seeking debt advice does. 

Sorry - missed that, thanks nos. Post edited. 

eatapeach222

nosferatu1001 said:

Unkomass - the op says they have a lbccc. First post. 

A sar doesn't hold the. Off of course. Stating you are seeking debt advice does. 

I'm stating that I am seeking debt advice in my response.  As I cannot appeal the POPLA decision it looks like it will go to court

Anyone got the basis of a successful POPLA appeal that won at POPLA stage? - I'll incorporate at this stage.