Paper delivery boys and girls get furloughed

masca

Are you seriously suggesting that your son (who I presume is a minor - I apologise if this assumption is incorrect) should be paid £9.60 per week by the tax payer for not delivering a paper that is not being produced, with all that's going on around us?!  Can you imagine what that would cost HMRC and employers in admin time alone for all the paper boys and girls in the country?

sliphi

noahgriff said:

sliphi said:

noahgriff said:

Hey, My son's paper round was suspended amid the crisis but his wage has also been suspended, he usually gets £12 a week but now he gets nothing..... Should his paper company furlough him?

I doubt he's paid through PAYE, is he?

Why has your son's paper round been suspended?
Better that he goes to deliver to 100 houses, than 100 people go to the shop daily to collect their newspaper.

#StayHome,SaveLives

sliphi said:

noahgriff said:

Hey, My son's paper round was suspended amid the crisis but his wage has also been suspended, he usually gets £12 a week but now he gets nothing..... Should his paper company furlough him?

I doubt he's paid through PAYE, is he?

Why has your son's paper round been suspended?
Better that he goes to deliver to 100 houses, than 100 people go to the shop daily to collect their newspaper.

He delivers for a free paper. He does 208 papers a week. He gets paid every 2 weeks and wage varies each week due to leaflets and size of paper (surprisingly). The free paper is produced by a regional newspaper company. 

I only received a phone call from the lady who drops the papers round saying they are suspending the paper due to the crisis and this was the day after the lockdown was announced. 

My advice was provided on the information you provided in your OP.

The quantity of papers delivered is irrelevant, as long as it >1.

If the newspaper has ceased being printed, then there is no need for a paper delivery service.

What about all those leaflets your son once delivered? Have all those businesses ceased too, hence why they have stopped???

Please post a copy of his employment contract (please redact any personal information first), and we will be able to advise you what if anything your son is entitled to.

strawb_shortcake

My son delivers leaflets every 3 weeks for the local shop (it is part of a chain), he's paid a bit more than the OP's son but this hadn't entered our heads that furlough could be an option. He earns £60 a time, and there is no more than a verbal agreement between him and the shop and he's certainly not on their payroll to even qualify for furlough. 
Obviously furlough is intended to support the business not the individual but children don't  have any financial or contractual obligations to meet so it is just pocket money for them.

sliphi

annabanana82 said:

My son delivers leaflets every 3 weeks for the local shop (it is part of a chain), he's paid a bit more than the OP's son but this hadn't entered our heads that furlough could be an option. He earns £60 a time, and there is no more than a verbal agreement between him and the shop and he's certainly not on their payroll to even qualify for furlough. 
Obviously furlough is intended to support the business not the individual but children don't  have any financial or contractual obligations to meet so it is just pocket money for them.

Whilst there is no obligation on an employer to provide a written contract of employment but it is in both parties interests to have one.

An employer is obligated to provide a ‘written statement of employment particulars’ , which is not a contract, which must include as a minimum:

• the employer’s name
• the employee’s or worker’s name, job title or a description of work and start date
• how much and how often an employee or worker will get paid
• hours and days of work and if and how they may vary
  
• holiday entitlement (and if that includes public holidays)
• where an employee or worker will be working 
• if an employee or worker works in different places, where these will be and what the employer’s address is
• how long a job is expected to last (and what the end date is if it’s a fixed-term contract)
• how long any probation period is and what its conditions are
• any other benefits
• obligatory training, whether or not this is paid for by the employer

The following must also be provided:

• sick pay and procedures
• other paid leave (for example, maternity leave and paternity leave)
• notice periods

All the above must be provided on the first day of employment, if not sooner

More info needs to be provided within 2 months, including disciplinary and grievance procedures.


If he's not on the shop's payroll, how is he being paid? e.g. does he submit an invoice???
If so, on what basis? e.g. does he receive a purchase order from the shop? If so, there are presumably terms & conditionss relating to that purchase by the shop/supply by your son.

strawb_shortcake

sliphi said:

annabanana82 said:

My son delivers leaflets every 3 weeks for the local shop (it is part of a chain), he's paid a bit more than the OP's son but this hadn't entered our heads that furlough could be an option. He earns £60 a time, and there is no more than a verbal agreement between him and the shop and he's certainly not on their payroll to even qualify for furlough. 
Obviously furlough is intended to support the business not the individual but children don't  have any financial or contractual obligations to meet so it is just pocket money for them.

Whilst there is no obligation on an employer to provide a written contract of employment but it is in both parties interests to have one.

An employer is obligated to provide a ‘written statement of employment particulars’ , which is not a contract, which must include as a minimum:

• the employer’s name
• the employee’s or worker’s name, job title or a description of work and start date
• how much and how often an employee or worker will get paid
• hours and days of work and if and how they may vary
  
• holiday entitlement (and if that includes public holidays)
• where an employee or worker will be working 
• if an employee or worker works in different places, where these will be and what the employer’s address is
• how long a job is expected to last (and what the end date is if it’s a fixed-term contract)
• how long any probation period is and what its conditions are
• any other benefits
• obligatory training, whether or not this is paid for by the employer

The following must also be provided:

• sick pay and procedures
• other paid leave (for example, maternity leave and paternity leave)
• notice periods

All the above must be provided on the first day of employment, if not sooner

More info needs to be provided within 2 months, including disciplinary and grievance procedures.


If he's not on the shop's payroll, how is he being paid? e.g. does he submit an invoice???

He submits an invoice once the leaflets are delivered, there has not been any exchange of paper work. His Dad was working in the shop when the opportunity came up, I'm not certain if the owner knows even knows my Son's name it's that casual arrangement. In the times my Son or his siblings have been unable to do the leaflets my Husband and I have done it.
It might not be ideal but given we are in a semi rural area we don't have much in terms of work for those still in school

sliphi

annabanana82 said:

sliphi said:

annabanana82 said:

My son delivers leaflets every 3 weeks for the local shop (it is part of a chain), he's paid a bit more than the OP's son but this hadn't entered our heads that furlough could be an option. He earns £60 a time, and there is no more than a verbal agreement between him and the shop and he's certainly not on their payroll to even qualify for furlough. 
Obviously furlough is intended to support the business not the individual but children don't  have any financial or contractual obligations to meet so it is just pocket money for them.

Whilst there is no obligation on an employer to provide a written contract of employment but it is in both parties interests to have one.

An employer is obligated to provide a ‘written statement of employment particulars’ , which is not a contract, which must include as a minimum:

• the employer’s name
• the employee’s or worker’s name, job title or a description of work and start date
• how much and how often an employee or worker will get paid
• hours and days of work and if and how they may vary
  
• holiday entitlement (and if that includes public holidays)
• where an employee or worker will be working 
• if an employee or worker works in different places, where these will be and what the employer’s address is
• how long a job is expected to last (and what the end date is if it’s a fixed-term contract)
• how long any probation period is and what its conditions are
• any other benefits
• obligatory training, whether or not this is paid for by the employer

The following must also be provided:

• sick pay and procedures
• other paid leave (for example, maternity leave and paternity leave)
• notice periods

All the above must be provided on the first day of employment, if not sooner

More info needs to be provided within 2 months, including disciplinary and grievance procedures.


If he's not on the shop's payroll, how is he being paid? e.g. does he submit an invoice???

He submits an invoice once the leaflets are delivered, there has not been any exchange of paper work. His Dad was working in the shop when the opportunity came up, I'm not certain if the owner knows even knows my Son's name it's that casual arrangement. In the times my Son or his siblings have been unable to do the leaflets my Husband and I have done it.
It might not be ideal but given we are in a semi rural area we don't have much in terms of work for those still in school

Possibly a disguised employee.

I feel sorry for the shop keeper, especially if as you say, he may not even know who he is paying. If your son is submitting an invoice, it must have his name on (unless you are now going to say it's in the name of a limited company)

When you son does not do the work himself, who submits the invoices then???

strawb_shortcake

sliphi said:

annabanana82 said:

sliphi said:

annabanana82 said:

My son delivers leaflets every 3 weeks for the local shop (it is part of a chain), he's paid a bit more than the OP's son but this hadn't entered our heads that furlough could be an option. He earns £60 a time, and there is no more than a verbal agreement between him and the shop and he's certainly not on their payroll to even qualify for furlough. 
Obviously furlough is intended to support the business not the individual but children don't  have any financial or contractual obligations to meet so it is just pocket money for them.

Whilst there is no obligation on an employer to provide a written contract of employment but it is in both parties interests to have one.

An employer is obligated to provide a ‘written statement of employment particulars’ , which is not a contract, which must include as a minimum:

• the employer’s name
• the employee’s or worker’s name, job title or a description of work and start date
• how much and how often an employee or worker will get paid
• hours and days of work and if and how they may vary
  
• holiday entitlement (and if that includes public holidays)
• where an employee or worker will be working 
• if an employee or worker works in different places, where these will be and what the employer’s address is
• how long a job is expected to last (and what the end date is if it’s a fixed-term contract)
• how long any probation period is and what its conditions are
• any other benefits
• obligatory training, whether or not this is paid for by the employer

The following must also be provided:

• sick pay and procedures
• other paid leave (for example, maternity leave and paternity leave)
• notice periods

All the above must be provided on the first day of employment, if not sooner

More info needs to be provided within 2 months, including disciplinary and grievance procedures.


If he's not on the shop's payroll, how is he being paid? e.g. does he submit an invoice???

He submits an invoice once the leaflets are delivered, there has not been any exchange of paper work. His Dad was working in the shop when the opportunity came up, I'm not certain if the owner knows even knows my Son's name it's that casual arrangement. In the times my Son or his siblings have been unable to do the leaflets my Husband and I have done it.
It might not be ideal but given we are in a semi rural area we don't have much in terms of work for those still in school

Possibly a disguised employee.

I feel sorry for the shop keeper, especially if as you say, he may not even know who he is paying. If your son is submitting an invoice, it must have his name on (unless you are now going to say it's in the name of a limited company)

When you son does not do the work himself, who submits the invoices then???

The manager knows my Son, the owner is very much arms length, if my Son doesn't submit an invoice then my Husband does. It really is just a simple receipt from a book provided by the shop 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

noahgriff said:

bradders1983 said:

The fact its £12 a week means he wont be on any payroll system.

I don't know.... It isn't a little shop or anything, it's an actual paper delivery agency Midland News Association

If the employer has to run a payroll (highly likely as they will have normal employees as well) then they have to include everyone irrespective of the amounts paid.

If son has a NINO he can check his Personal Tax Account to see what has been reported for him wages wise.

https://www.gov.uk/running-payroll/payments

unforeseen

Did he have an NI number? If he was invoicing the company, had he informed HMRC that he was self-employed? 

strawb_shortcake

I don't think anyone other than the OP considered furlough to be a viable option, children under the age of 16 do not pay national insurance, and only have to be included on the payroll if they earn above personal threshold, I can't believe there are many below 16 earning £12500 a year. 
I don't think HMRC are in the slightest bit interested in children earning £12-20 a week.