Is this a pyramid?

lestamunda

I might be wrong, but I think you have to get a set number of "recruits" before you go higher in the structure - leaders etc etc(AKA pyriamid!!!!).

A mate of mine got sucked in, I spoke to him yesterday and even he says it is a form of brainwash - where the top guys get it all, there is only a finite number of people you can recruit (build into pyriamid!!!!!!). He lost a fair bit on it, but the recruiter did OK out of it.

NUFF SAID

phingers

I think that at this point someone needs to define the difference between a pyramid scheme and a pyrmaid structure.
Every large business is pyramidical in structure-
MD
Directors
Senior Management
Management
Office Staff/ Sales Reps
This is a very brief example. One guy at the top big with a big salary, moving down through the ranks, greater numbers of people at each level on lower salaries.
There is nothing wrong with this- this is how businesses work.
A pyramid scheme. The DTI is very clear about what is and isn't. A pyramid scheme PAYS recruiters for recruiting. MLM/ Networking does not make payments for simply recruiting people.
Often in pyramid schemes there is no product involved- it is purely a money game where moneys change hands until someone gets shafted because there are no more people who want to get involved and they lose a lot of dosh.
As far as structure goes, yes every MLM is pyramidical in shape- solid business structure.
Taking distributor number 1 (first in deals direct with his product supplier). He makes money by selling product to customers (friends, family etc.) He can then increase his turnover by having a heck of a lot of customers. But most MLM start as part time businesses and lots of customers=lots of time therefore not practical for most people.
So route 2 is recruiting others to do exactly as he does. 'Prospects' are shown the business opportunity and can decide i)to get involved as a distributor, ii)become a customer or iii)do nothing at all.
If they become distributors then they make money by having customers who pay retail for the product-the distributor makes the profit from product sale.
Distributor number 1 sees his turnover increase and is paid by the company a performance related bonus if xyz levels are met. Distributor 2 will also get a PRB from the company if he reaches xyz levels.
And so the business grows for every distributor involved. They all retail and earn mark up and they all sponsor others.
No-one earns money in legitimate MLM for recruiting. Everyone has the same opportunity to progress up levels. In the most ethical MLM. distributor 2 can overtake distributor 1 if he (2) is developing a bigger business than his sponsor.
Forever Living confuse things slightly in the names they have for their distributors.
Are the products expensive? Try them. If you like them keep buying them. If you can get what you perceive to be just as good quality at a cheaper price then go elsewhere.
Please don't knock a business that is regarded worldwide as the most pure and efficient trading system. Check out how many universities (here and in the US) teach MLM as part of business studies.
I could go on in far greater detail about cost of product/ company profit/ amount paid in bonuses compared to product cost/ mark up. But I won't.

Ted_Hutchinson

phingers wrote:

No-one earns money in legitimate MLM for recruiting.

If that is the case why does the FLP website say "Earn 5% - 18% bonus on your New Distributors’ retail sales. When you sponsor new distributors, each month you receive a bonus based upon the retail value of all the product purchases they place, until they reach the level of Assistant Supervisor
While it is true that a one off specific recruitment reward is not available getting 5-18% of all the new recruits sales is MONEY and it a reward for sponsoring new recruits.

It is an insult to the intelligence of the readers here to publish downright lies to promote your business.

With regard to value for money here are a few examples of FLP excessive profiteering necessary to ensure all the various levels of the pyramid get their rake off.
Forever Calcium 60 Tabs 250mg Calcium 25mg magnesium - £16.93

Zipvit Calcium Magnesium 60tabs 400mg Calcium 200mg magnesium £2.75

Echinacea Supreme 60 Tabs - £15.00

Zipvit Echinacea 3200mg 90 Tabs £4.95

Aloe Jojoba Shampoo 235 ml - £10.01

530 ml. Shampoo P rice: £2.99

Aloe Vera Gel 1 Litre - £18.00

Holland and Barrett 1litre- £8.99

Forever Bee Propolis 60 Tabs - £22.70

Zipvit 1000mg Bee Propolis 120 tabs -£5.96

The observant will note that in every case the quantity and quality (strength of active ingredient) is always better from Zipvit or the High Street suppliers and the price is always significantly greater at FLP.

**Edited by boardguide**

pricefighter

This article about MLM is worth a read.

http://www.theopportunityisnowhere.co.uk/page15.html

phingers

"It is an insult to the intelligence of the readers here to publish downright lies to promote your business."

Sorry but are you suggesting I AM LYING to PROMOTE MY BUSINESS? I am NOT INVOLVED in network marketing and so have nothing to promote. I know a lot of people who are or have been involved. Some are very successful. Others are not. As with any career in life.

What I find insulting is the ignorance of many posters on this thread. An opinion expressed with a view to influencing the thoughts or actions of another is assuming the other person has no brain of their own and is incapable of making INFORMED judgement.

It is a fact that networking works. Amway. Betterware. Kleeneze. Telecom Plus. Virgin Cosmetics. (Just a small selection of those that come to mind.)Billions of pounds in turnover, thousands of distibutors involved, all members of the DSA and all of which can be checked out through the DTI.

"While it is true that a one off specific recruitment reward is not available getting 5-18% of all the new recruits sales is MONEY and it a reward for sponsoring new recruits."

Nope. This is a reward for helping to generate increased sales turnover. As with any sales organisation, new members bring in more revenue and thus more funds are available for bonus payments. The recruits themselves will be making around 40% mark up on retail sales PLUS any bonuses they qualify for. Their 'upline/ sponsor' will be investing time in helping them develop their business and is thus rewarded by the company with performance related bonus. It is a reward for influencing sales and yes this comes from sponsoring new recruits. But if that recruit does !!!!!! all then nothing is paid to anyone.

In pyramid selling the very act of sponsorship was rewarded fiscally.

I am not seeking to influence your thoughts Ted- I wouldn't dream of attempting to do so as this would be downright rude and would assume you have no brain of your own, which clearly you do. You have an opinion and are producing all sorts of stats to support it. I am offering an outsiders view on a business about which I have acquired some knowledge over the years as I have been approached to join a heck of a lot of them.

My personal circumstances preclude my involvement.
I am not promoting network marketing over any other type of business.
I have nothing to gain in so doing.

I AM JUST SAYING THAT RATHER THAN WASTE TIME READING OTHER PEOPLES OPINIONS AND WEBSITES, IF YOU'RE INVITED TO LOOK AT ANYTHING LIKE MLM OR TO ATTEND A JOB INTERVIEW OR TO GO TO THE CINEMA OR TO A MUSEUM, GO AND CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF AND MAKE AN INFORMED JUDGEMENT.

Doubtless there will be posts after mine suggesting gathering facts from others who have 'been through the fire' is far better. But negative experiences get far more publicity than positive (just watch the news on tv). You're bound to find negative rhetoric faster than positive which may influence your opinion and you may miss out on seeing the best business/ job/ film/ art exhibition by letting someone else do your thinking for you.

Just my opinion of course. But if you're letting someone do your thinking for you then what's the point of you?

Ted_Hutchinson

phingers wrote:

"While it is true that a one off specific recruitment reward is not available getting 5-18% of all the new recruits sales is MONEY and it a reward for sponsoring new recruits."

Nope. This is a reward for helping to generate increased sales turnover. As with any sales organisation, new members bring in more revenue and thus more funds are available for bonus payments. The recruits themselves will be making around 40% mark up on retail sales PLUS any bonuses they qualify for. Their 'upline/ sponsor' will be investing time in helping them develop their business and is thus rewarded by the company with performance related bonus. It is a reward for influencing sales and yes this comes from sponsoring new recruits. But if that recruit does !!!!!! all then nothing is paid to anyone.

But the new sponsor simply purchasing the starter packs, combo packs, beauty packs, animal packs, and associated sales information, will generate sufficient recruitment reward.

The FLP website which I have provided links to clearly shows, on the new distributor pages, that more words, more space are given over to the recruitment of further sponsors and the increasing profit this generates, than the actual products themselves.

People are drawn in not by the quality of FLP products but the illusion of the profit that can be made from selling them but more than this, the extra profit you can glean by sponsoring more sellers.

You are simply using weasel words to deceive people into thinking FLP are about selling, they aren't, they are basically looking for recruiting people to buy expensive starter packs, expensive beauty packs, expensive sales literature and then either con their relatives and friends into taking pity on them, to get rid of the, (compared to other retail outlets) expensive, overpriced, lower quality product or con them into becoming further sponsors and buying more starter packs, beauty packs and sales packs to create a never ending chain.

bluep

If I had a "friend" who decided to try and flog me some of this stuff, or recruit me, I would think again about their intelligence and friendship.

Surely the difference between ethical and non-ethical MLM is the value for money of the products (would Virgin Cosmetics have been successful with such a huge mark-up in comparison to the rest of the market?), and internal reward structure - i.e. earnings are mainly commission for sales not recruitment.

At the end of the day though, you are either the kind of person who has no problem being unethical and working in this manner or you are not. If you are quibbling about whether FLM and the like are ethical or not, I would presume you are the former.

n.b. To use incorrect grammar/spelling shows a small level of ignorance that we're all guilty of, to point it out shows far greater.

Ted_Hutchinson

Federal Trade Commission have a list of points to consider when introduced to or buying from an MLM company. I will edit in my comments on them in red and provide links to FLP evidence through the day as I have time.

1. Avoid any plan that includes commissions for recruiting additional distributors. It may be an illegal pyramid.By sponsoring new members and selling them introductory packs and sales literature you increase your personal volume thereby earning 5% to 18% on retail sales of your personal volume
2. Beware of plans that ask new distributors to purchase expensive inventory. These plans can collapse quickly -- and also may be thinly-disguised pyramids I have priced up the Starter pack which has a retail value of about £300 so if we take off the 43% profit margin the cost price would be about £170 however this is only for starters samples literature and stock cost extra. Details of sales packs and sales literature
3. Be cautious of plans that claim you will make money through continued growth of your "downline" -- the commissions on sales made by new distributors you recruit -- rather than through sales of products you make yourself. FLP offer.3% to 13% on retail sales of distributors in your group
4. Beware of plans that claim to sell miracle products or promise enormous earnings. Just because a promoter of a plan makes a claim doesn't mean it's true! Ask the promoter of the plan to substantiate claims with hard evidence. Pubmed is the place where peer reviewed placebo controlled double blind research papers are published and abstracts are available. Typical for Aloe Vera is this conclusion. There is no evidence from clinical trials to suggest that topical Aloe vera is effective in preventing or minimising radiation-induced skin reactions in cancer patients.
5. Beware of shills -- "decoy" references paid by a plan's promoter to describe their fictional success in earning money through the plan.FLP newsletter for those interested in reading a list of "shills"
6. Don't pay or sign any contracts in an "opportunity meeting" or any other high-pressure situation. Insist on taking your time to think over a decision to join. Talk it over with your spouse, a knowledgeable friend, an accountant or lawyer
7. Do your homework! Check with your local Better Business Bureau and state Attorney General about any plan you're considering -- especially when the claims about the product or your potential earnings seem too good to be true.

bluep

I'd also like to point out, if you follow the FLP link to their online shop, NONE of their products have a price listed, even once you have selected them and placed them in your shopping basket. I've never seen a legitimate online store that does this.

Bendybops19

Forever Living Products are ok, not sure why their website is like this tho!!
My sister was a representative of FLP for a while and it was all above board. Have to say tho, she didnt make a lot of money and i dont really think its worth it for the hassle.