PCN in private carpark at residence NO ticket received on car

freedomfighter82

Hi all, First of all apologies for if this is a duplicated thread I'm aware of the 'NEWBIES' section however between work and family life I don't really have the time to sift through it all.

On the 14/02/20 I allegedly received a PCN for parking without a permit in the private car park where I reside. (I've lived there over 18 months without a permit and have never received a ticket). I was unaware of this until the 23/03/20 when I received a letter from a debt collector (ZZPS) requesting payment stating as the 28 day period to pay the charge (£100), (£60) within 14 days) had lapsed without any contact or appeal. They are now asking for £127 (£100+£27 admin fees). Surprised, angry and confused I attempted to email the parking company (City Permits LTD) who's automated email system rejected the email due to the 28 day period passing. Out of frustration and maybe wrongly I then spoke to ZZPS explaining I had never received a ticket to which they responded they would send photographic evidence (which they have) on the 01/04/20 however that doesn't change the fact I NEVER physically seen the ticket on my car, meaning it's their word (and evidence) against mine. Along with the photographic evidence sent they requested payment within 14 days. I'm aware they can't physically do anything until this period lapses and ultimately they have notify me they want file a court claim. I'm not keen to drag this into a saga however I'm not going to lay down and pay a fine that has now more than doubled without the right to ever appeal! My arguments against the ticket are:

1. I NEVER actually received the ticket so loss the right to appeal and/or pay the reduced fine.
2. I'm a permanent resident at the property (can prove with tenancy agreement) therefore the costs incurred don't reflect the actual loss of earnings from the landowner.
3.Due to the current national situation and being furloughed (from 2nd job) I'm now receiving reduced income thus limiting my ability to pay the fine (which would have been less than half had I actually received it).
4. Is there any case I can fight re the sign e.g ambiguity or font size etc? (see attached)
5. I'm also trying to access the CCTV from the carpark to determine what actually happened to the ticket although I'm not hopeful as the management company don't seem to be very forthcoming with this!

I'm now at the point where I feel my options are the following and would like some advice please!:

In no particular order

1. Do nothing and wait for them to threaten court action-if they do continue to appeal all the way to court then only pay if I lose to avoid CCJ/bad credit.
2. Contact City Permits directly and fight my case- I left a message and am waiting a callback (whether they flat out reject my appeal due to the 28 days lapsing remains to be seen).
3. Go down the formal POPLA route
4. Pay £60 'in protest' (the initial fine within 14 days)  arguing that this is fair given the circumstances.

Any and all feedback welcome!
Thanks in advance

nosferatu1001

Not @ hope cctv still exists
have you looked at your lease granted rights?

KeithP

A sign that says in it's biggest letters:

is a forbidding sign.

freedomfighter82

nosferatu1001 said:

Not @ hope cctv still exists
have you looked at your lease granted rights?

Thanks for the response,
I've just spoken to the landlord who informed me that the maintenance company introduced this new private permit system in February WITHOUT informing her or any of the other owners/landlords in the block. Is this another legal route I can go down?

nosferatu1001

Wha5. Does. Your. Lease. State?

thats the first route 
did your landlord tell you that in writing? If so seems the MA broke the law -L&TA - by not polling people before changing their lease. Introducing a permit system requires the lease to be changed. 

Fruitcake

Please answer all questions asked by the regulars on here. Remember that you have information that we do not. We need the information asked for in order to help you.

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

You really do need to read the NEWBIES thread. We get about a hundred requests for help every day. Between work and family commitments many of us don't have the time to spoon feed posters which is why the NEWBIES is there to help you. If we answered every question asked by every poster, this forum would collapse. The NEWBIES already answers most of your questions so we don't have to repeat ourselves day in day out.

You don't need to read it all but you do need to read the parts that are relevant to your case.  

Never, ever 'phone a parking scammer. 
Never, ever contact a debt collector, ever.

freedomfighter82

nosferatu1001 said:

Wha5. Does. Your. Lease. State?

thats the first route 
did your landlord tell you that in writing? If so seems the MA broke the law -L&TA - by not polling people before changing their lease. Introducing a permit system requires the lease to be changed. 

Thanks, as I'm just a tenant not the lessee I can't confirm yet, I'm waiting for the landlord to come back to me

Coupon-mad

What does your tenancy agreement say, if anything, about parking rights, regulations or permits?  Were you handed a permit at any stage? Was the landlord?

Are the leaseholders all telling the Managing Agents to get stuffed? They cannot impose an onerous parking scheme without consent. This is what the leasehold owners need to rise up and do as one:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997200/pcm-company-introduced

Show that to your landlord as this cannot be imposed without consent.

D_P_Dance

Read this

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Le_Kirk

freedomfighter82 said:

nosferatu1001 said:

Not @ hope cctv still exists
have you looked at your lease granted rights?

Thanks for the response,
I've just spoken to the landlord who informed me that the maintenance company introduced this new private permit system in February WITHOUT informing her or any of the other owners/landlords in the block. Is this another legal route I can go down?

When did the maintenance company (maintenance company, MAINTENANCE, not even the Management Company) carry out the consultation about parking companies infesting your residence?  When did they ask the tenants/owners/residents if they wanted to be infested by sharks?  Did 75% of the residents agree with no more than 10% disagreeing?

nosferatu1001

I asked two questions and you answered one. 
You have a lease. An AST is a lease. Just a short one.