Message from ABTA A disgrace.

JasonUK123

zagfles said:

I wonder how many people whining that they can't have their money back for a service that the airline/tour operator/hotel can no longer provide through no fault of theirs, at the same time have the hypocrisy to expect their employer, or the government, to carry on paying them for work they can no longer do, or no longer do as well, because of the same reason?

Many have already been made redundant by their employer. Many businesses (including mine) have provided refunds or changed terms of contracts to benefit the consumer rather than the financials of the business. Many business owners are getting next to no support from the Gov and are still doing the right thing. 

RalphWiggam

How about my situation?  I stupidly signed up for the Tui direct debit scheme, paid 2 payments totalling just over £1000.  I have cancelled the holiday which was for August, I understand I lose the £400 deposit but Tui owe me £667 which I paid on the direct debits, its been over 18 days now, they wont answer the phone.   I dont see why I should have to write this money off, they have already had the £400 deposit out of me, I cannot afford to lose the rest.  I am furious as are a lot of other people going off the comments on the Facebook page.  I will never use Tui again after this.   (if they survive that is)

snow_white_baker

zagfles said:

I wonder how many people whining that they can't have their money back for a service that the airline/tour operator/hotel can no longer provide through no fault of theirs, at the same time have the hypocrisy to expect their employer, or the government, to carry on paying them for work they can no longer do, or no longer do as well, because of the same reason?

You seem to have plenty of time on your hands , writing a pointless post .
maybe you should count them ,and let us no . 
Have a nice day 

zagfles

JasonUK123 said:

zagfles said:

I wonder how many people whining that they can't have their money back for a service that the airline/tour operator/hotel can no longer provide through no fault of theirs, at the same time have the hypocrisy to expect their employer, or the government, to carry on paying them for work they can no longer do, or no longer do as well, because of the same reason?

Many have already been made redundant by their employer. Many businesses (including mine) have provided refunds or changed terms of contracts to benefit the consumer rather than the financials of the business. Many business owners are getting next to no support from the Gov and are still doing the right thing. 

Oh I'm sure some are. But others will be taking the "furlough", the self employed support, the business support packages, will be working at home even though their employment contract states they must attend a workplace, expecting full pay even though they can't provide full service, or be not working at all yet expecting 80% pay.

People and companies through no fault of their own are unable to provide their usual service, in some cases any service. If you're expecting travel companies to give a full refund for service they're unable to provide, fine, as long as you're not expecting your employer or the govt to pay you if you can't fulfil your employment contract.  

Alan_Bowen

The law hasn't changed, so the 14 day rule is still the rule, the government are simply hanging the industry out to dry. The rules were written to cover the situation when holidays to a particular destination were no longer available, whether that was due to a natural disaster or political instability, but never since the 2WW have we been in a position where you cannot travel anywhere. The EU and UK when drafting the law assumed that operators could offer alternative holidays and only a few people would choose the option of a full refund.

Yes, you can take legal action but in 2019 the average time to get a small claims court hearing was 39 weeks and that will be a lot longer in 2020, so you may feel better, but you will be waiting longer.

You can all demand refunds and see the business collapse, yes you may be protected by ABTA or the CAA but if there are numerous failures, how long do you think you would be waiting for the refund? All staff are working from home, it would be impossible to process claims until this issue has cleared, so it could be June or July before either organisation could begin to look at it. If your bank is like mine, they keep sending me emails asking me not to call as they have very few staff to take calls, so section 75 claims might not be as quick as you would expect either.
Why does the industry not have the money to pay? The minute you book an airline ticket, you as the operator have to pay for it, airlines are only offering credit notes, Virgin Atlantic wrote yesterday and said they could not begin to process refunds for 90 days and most of the other airlines have put procedures in place to delay refund claims for a similar period of time. The industry cannot give back what it doesn't have, blood from a stone etc. Everyone is inundated with demands, some understanding, some frankly abusive and no one wants to deny what is properly belonging to the customer. ABTA has tried its best and confirmed that if the company that offers you a Refund Credit Voucher ceases to trade before the end of July, the current financial protection you have will still be there. We don't have any control over insurers and I am sure many have looked with despair at their attempts to avoid all liability. No one is living off your money, well airlines and some hotel chains are, but operators and agents are not, it would be much easier to give everyone the money back and get rid of the hassle if only they could

bagand96

snow_white_baker said:

So are the Abta braking the law. On there 

Advice to customers

ABTA's current information states they are asking government for an extension to normal timescales for refunds.  It's been reported in the press they are also asking government to change the law and enable a voucher to count as a refund.  They do not state that on their site.  What they do say is that any voucher includes the financial protection that was in place for the booking.

pattycake

Pollycat said:

pattycake said:

I I have 4 holidays booked with Tui for this year.  One departing 18 April which I am sure is cancelled but I’ve yet to hear from Tui.  One middle of June, probably won’t go ahead either.  Both of these are fully paid.
Then, I’ve an August break and an October holiday.  Ideally, I would  like the funds I’ve already paid, set against my future holidays.  Will that be permissible in this new reality? I don’t know and probably neither does Tui at the present time.

Well, this is what TUI are currently saying about holidays for travel between 17/4 and 30/6:

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/info/flexible-payment-options

So you should be able to swap your April & June holiday to something else. You'll get a refund it the new holiday is cheaper than you've paid but you will have to pay the difference if it's more expensive.

I guess that's as far as anyone can see right now.

Yes, Pollycat, I’ve read that information BUT my bookings for August and October already exist.  Can I move the money already paid to these holidays I’ve already committed to? I am adopting a “wait and see” stance but currently my online booking for 18 April is showing that I can check in in 4 days!

JasonUK123

zagfles said:

JasonUK123 said:

zagfles said:

I wonder how many people whining that they can't have their money back for a service that the airline/tour operator/hotel can no longer provide through no fault of theirs, at the same time have the hypocrisy to expect their employer, or the government, to carry on paying them for work they can no longer do, or no longer do as well, because of the same reason?

Many have already been made redundant by their employer. Many businesses (including mine) have provided refunds or changed terms of contracts to benefit the consumer rather than the financials of the business. Many business owners are getting next to no support from the Gov and are still doing the right thing. 

Oh I'm sure some are. But others will be taking the "furlough", the self employed support, the business support packages, will be working at home even though their employment contract states they must attend a workplace, expecting full pay even though they can't provide full service, or be not working at all yet expecting 80% pay.

People and companies through no fault of their own are unable to provide their usual service, in some cases any service. If you're expecting travel companies to give a full refund for service they're unable to provide, fine, as long as you're not expecting your employer or the govt to pay you if you can't fulfil your employment contract.  

Not sure employment law and consumer law can really be compared. Surely if you are still employed you expect to be paid regardless of where you work. It is up to the business to decide whether to maintain employment. It isn't acase of the employee being hypocritical. 

Further, I would say that no one is suggesting the travel companies shouldn't receive help/support. What people are saying is they shouldn't use their customers' funds to leverage Government into assistance and let's not forget these companies are UK limited companies. There are clear processes to go through when you can't pay your obligations. These companies will no doubt be furloughing their staff to save 80% of their wages but still not paying back customers monies. Surely that would be the mother of all hypocrisies. 

zagfles

JasonUK123 said:

zagfles said:

JasonUK123 said:

zagfles said:

I wonder how many people whining that they can't have their money back for a service that the airline/tour operator/hotel can no longer provide through no fault of theirs, at the same time have the hypocrisy to expect their employer, or the government, to carry on paying them for work they can no longer do, or no longer do as well, because of the same reason?

Many have already been made redundant by their employer. Many businesses (including mine) have provided refunds or changed terms of contracts to benefit the consumer rather than the financials of the business. Many business owners are getting next to no support from the Gov and are still doing the right thing. 

Oh I'm sure some are. But others will be taking the "furlough", the self employed support, the business support packages, will be working at home even though their employment contract states they must attend a workplace, expecting full pay even though they can't provide full service, or be not working at all yet expecting 80% pay.

People and companies through no fault of their own are unable to provide their usual service, in some cases any service. If you're expecting travel companies to give a full refund for service they're unable to provide, fine, as long as you're not expecting your employer or the govt to pay you if you can't fulfil your employment contract.  

Not sure employment law and consumer law can really be compared. Surely if you are still employed you expect to be paid regardless of where you work. It is up to the business to decide whether to maintain employment. It isn't acase of the employee being hypocritical. 

Further, I would say that no one is suggesting the travel companies shouldn't receive help/support. What people are saying is they shouldn't use their customers' funds to leverage Government into assistance and let's not forget these companies are UK limited companies. There are clear processes to go through when you can't pay your obligations. These companies will no doubt be furloughing their staff to save 80% of their wages but still not paying back customers monies. Surely that would be the mother of all hypocrisies. 

Only if you think staff costs are the only costs. Maybe they should furlough all their staff, who'd process the refunds then? 

It was a point of principle - if in this crisis you don't cut others some slack when they can't deliver on a contract through no fault of their own, don't expect others to cut you slack when you can't deliver on your contract (employment or otherwise). 

Pollycat

pattycake said:

Pollycat said:

pattycake said:

I I have 4 holidays booked with Tui for this year.  One departing 18 April which I am sure is cancelled but I’ve yet to hear from Tui.  One middle of June, probably won’t go ahead either.  Both of these are fully paid.
Then, I’ve an August break and an October holiday.  Ideally, I would  like the funds I’ve already paid, set against my future holidays.  Will that be permissible in this new reality? I don’t know and probably neither does Tui at the present time.

Well, this is what TUI are currently saying about holidays for travel between 17/4 and 30/6:

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/info/flexible-payment-options

So you should be able to swap your April & June holiday to something else. You'll get a refund it the new holiday is cheaper than you've paid but you will have to pay the difference if it's more expensive.

I guess that's as far as anyone can see right now.

Yes, Pollycat, I’ve read that information BUT my bookings for August and October already exist.  Can I move the money already paid to these holidays I’ve already committed to? I am adopting a “wait and see” stance but currently my online booking for 18 April is showing that I can check in in 4 days!

Then I'm sorry, I do not know.