Self employed but PAYE

Scott1785

I work in the TV and film industry as camera assistant / grip assistant. As the whole film and TV industry has shut I currently have now way of making a living. A lot of people in this industry are freelance but paid via PAYE. The majority of my work come from Holyoaks (Lime Pictures) however in the last tax year I worked for 6 different productions but all tax paid via PAYE. So in many respects I am self employed, however the people who buy my services pay my tax via PAYE. I do fill out self assessment and have done for well over 3 years, however all tax was paid via PAYE. 
So I am worried that I fall outside all obvious help, I am not an employee as no one is going furlough me. The contacts I have are always zero hours, so not ideal. Am I actually self employed as my tax is PAYE. I can't seem to find clarity over my situation. Many of us in our industry are paid on this basis.   

Jeremy535897

Do you show the income as trading income on your tax return or employment income?

Scott1785

Thanks, I will check. 

Luvoj

Scott1785 said:

I work in the TV and film industry as camera assistant / grip assistant. As the whole film and TV industry has shut I currently have now way of making a living. A lot of people in this industry are freelance but paid via PAYE. The majority of my work come from Holyoaks (Lime Pictures) however in the last tax year I worked for 6 different productions but all tax paid via PAYE. So in many respects I am self employed, however the people who buy my services pay my tax via PAYE. I do fill out self assessment and have done for well over 3 years, however all tax was paid via PAYE. 
So I am worried that I fall outside all obvious help, I am not an employee as no one is going furlough me. The contacts I have are always zero hours, so not ideal. Am I actually self employed as my tax is PAYE. I can't seem to find clarity over my situation. Many of us in our industry are paid on this basis.   

PAYE is a scheme for employees.
If you are freelance/self employed you would be paid on invoice usually.
I know the construction industry has the CIS scheme, but believe that is unique to the construction industry.

More common is that you may be working under an agency agreement, and/or perhaps through an umbrella company.

If you are genuinely being paid through PAYE, then you would receive an annual P60 (assuming you are employed by the employer at the end of the tax year, otherwise a P45) - that will state who employs you.

Jeremy535897

It's not as simple as that in certain industries. You can be self employed but still be subject to PAYE, a bit like the construction industry scheme taking deductions. Box 81 of self-employment (full) in the tax return covers CIS, box 82 covers other tax taken off trading income.

ArJayBe

My daughter has been a self-employed costume maker in the entertainment industry for many years. Until 2018/19 she had worked entirely in theatre but was offered work in television last year. The production company insisted that unless she was a limited company, when she would have been allowed to submit invoices, they would only pay her through PAYE. She did not regard herself as an employee but couldn't get paid any other way. She finished with the project last weekend so is receiving no income. For the first time in more than 10 years, the majority of her income will show up in her tax return as PAYE rather than self-employed. Does this mean she will miss out on the grant offered by the Government in the announcement today for self-employed people? 

ArJayBe

Sorry, I am new to this. Should I have started a new thread? It just seemed like my daughter's situation was similar to Scott1785.

Jeremy535897

Probably, but never mind. I think the position will be looked at over the three years, not one, so it may be she is OK, but we really don't know any more than the gov.uk document accompanying the Chancellor's speech
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chancellor-gives-support-to-millions-of-self-employed-individuals

Luvoj

ArJayBe said:

My daughter has been a self-employed costume maker in the entertainment industry for many years. Until 2018/19 she had worked entirely in theatre but was offered work in television last year. The production company insisted that unless she was a limited company, when she would have been allowed to submit invoices, they would only pay her through PAYE. She did not regard herself as an employee but couldn't get paid any other way. She finished with the project last weekend so is receiving no income. For the first time in more than 10 years, the majority of her income will show up in her tax return as PAYE rather than self-employed. Does this mean she will miss out on the grant offered by the Government in the announcement today for self-employed people? 

You cannot pay invoices through PAYE, as far as my 20 years in business has taught me.
If you submit an invoice for say £2000, what tax and NICs would be deducted, and how would you account for the shortfall in payment of your invoice in your books???

Jeremy535897

Luvoj said:

ArJayBe said:

My daughter has been a self-employed costume maker in the entertainment industry for many years. Until 2018/19 she had worked entirely in theatre but was offered work in television last year. The production company insisted that unless she was a limited company, when she would have been allowed to submit invoices, they would only pay her through PAYE. She did not regard herself as an employee but couldn't get paid any other way. She finished with the project last weekend so is receiving no income. For the first time in more than 10 years, the majority of her income will show up in her tax return as PAYE rather than self-employed. Does this mean she will miss out on the grant offered by the Government in the announcement today for self-employed people? 

You cannot pay invoices through PAYE, as far as my 20 years in business has taught me.
If you submit an invoice for say £2000, what tax and NICs would be deducted, and how would you account for the shortfall in payment of your invoice in your books???

You misunderstand the situation. In this industry, you have to have PAYE taken from payments made to you, unless you form a limited company, work for it, and then that limited company issues a bill for your time. Even then you may end up in a world of pain, as you might have seen in the news when high profile TV personalities get big bills when their company is ignored for tax and they are treated as receiving the money paid to their company personally.

ArJayBe

The BBC said on it's site that "At least half their income needs to have come from self-employment as registered on the 2018-19 tax return filed in January - anyone who missed the filing deadline has four weeks from now to get it done and still qualify." I don't know how accurate this is but I am worried that she will miss out. She lives alone and is in a shared ownership scheme so pays both mortgage and rent and it looks like her income may cease completely. There is no possibility of work for her at the moment.