Denied SELF ISOLATION

50Twuncle

My niece has been told that if she takes time off for self isolation : she will be sacked from her job in a garden centre ( she works 20 hours per week)
This cannot be right
Is there no protection ?

General_Grant

The usual question we ask is "how long has she worked there?"

suki1964

Has she underlying health conditions that makes self isolating a priority for her?

From what I can understand, right now, until the GVT says your business has to close, all you can do is apply for a government benefit ?? I could well be wrong, I myself am trying to work through the minefield as Mr S is self employed and his work had dried up and mine , well my hours are cut to the bone. But as far as I can see it, unless they say we are in lock down or your niece has to care for children who are no longer allowed to go to school, its a UC claim she needs to submit

[Deleted User]

How many colleagues do they work with? I work with one other of nearly 6 years standing myself I have 6 weeks and our boss' answer to us both I'm led to believe is what do think your going to catch of each other particularly once they prevented the work men who are those with face to face contact with the public entering our space. I wasn't arguing turned out it was my colleague of longer service.
I still get to boost to customers we've not let any customers down yet as telesales call still have to be made with our boss having a melt down. On the other side of the coin I don't fancy having to work from home as don't like the idea of handling personal data which seems funnily enough to have fallen by the wayside and I wouldn't really want to have to invite my boss into my home to see the area where their laptop is etc.
Imagine you are the boss, having to send people home on full wages until Lord knows when, seeing your business decrease down the pan. Got a bit fed up with the alternate duty of tidying up yesterday, when really suppose I could have said half day holiday thanks! though the phone wasn't going to completely stop ringing!

DanielGodfrey

This issue is coming up a lot at the moment with people understandably anxious about travelling into their place of work. 

• The starting position is that you are required to attend your normal place of work to do your normal pattern of work unless the employer has instructed you otherwise. 

• If you have more than 2 years' service and you are following government guidance to self-isolate because you have displayed one of the two main symptoms of Covid 19 (a new recurring cough or a fever) or because you are in a grouping that the government has identified as vulnerable, then a capability or conduct dismissal in those circumstances for not attending work is very likely to be unfair. 
• If you do not have 2 years' service, but do decide to self-isolate because you have displayed one of the two main symptoms of Covid 19 or are in a vulnerable group, then my advice would be to emphasise the risk to your health and safety and the health and safety of others when you explain to your employer why you are self-isolating. s.44 (detriment) and s.100 (dismissal)  Employment Rights Act 1996 provide protection when you take steps to avert danger that you reasonably believe to be serious and imminent.
• If you do or do not have 2 years' service and decide to self-isolate even though you do not have one of the two main symptoms and/or are not in a vulnerable group, you can still rely on the health and safety approach outlined above, but the approach is less robust in circumstances where you can't point to existing government guidance to justify the course of action you've taken. 

Bear in mind that all of this is just on your legal position - there's nothing stopping the employer from dismissing you in any event and forcing you into then trying to bring a claim on one of the grounds I've outlined above. That being said, ultimately your interest and your employer's interest is not completely aligned and so only you know what the right call is for you to do in the circumstances. 

jonathanc8888

DanielGodfrey said:

This issue is coming up a lot at the moment with people understandably anxious about travelling into their place of work. 

• The starting position is that you are required to attend your normal place of work to do your normal pattern of work unless the employer has instructed you otherwise. 

• If you have more than 2 years' service and you are following government guidance to self-isolate because you have displayed one of the two main symptoms of Covid 19 (a new recurring cough or a fever) or because you are in a grouping that the government has identified as vulnerable, then a capability or conduct dismissal in those circumstances for not attending work is very likely to be unfair. 
• If you do not have 2 years' service, but do decide to self-isolate because you have displayed one of the two main symptoms of Covid 19 or are in a vulnerable group, then my advice would be to emphasise the risk to your health and safety and the health and safety of others when you explain to your employer why you are self-isolating. s.44 (detriment) and s.100 (dismissal)  Employment Rights Act 1996 provide protection when you take steps to avert danger that you reasonably believe to be serious and imminent.
• If you do or do not have 2 years' service and decide to self-isolate even though you do not have one of the two main symptoms and/or are not in a vulnerable group, you can still rely on the health and safety approach outlined above, but the approach is less robust in circumstances where you can't point to existing government guidance to justify the course of action you've taken. 

Bear in mind that all of this is just on your legal position - there's nothing stopping the employer from dismissing you in any event and forcing you into then trying to bring a claim on one of the grounds I've outlined above. That being said, ultimately your interest and your employer's interest is not completely aligned and so only you know what the right call is for you to do in the circumstances. 

That's very helpful, many thanks Daniel.

50Twuncle

She has only worked there for around 9 months and has no underlying health issues but is just extremely worried that customers may have !!

She works with  few dozen colleagues

warby68

50Twuncle said:

She has only worked there for around 9 months and has no underlying health issues but is just extremely worried that customers may have !!

She works with  few dozen colleagues

Well that is why she does not have the full support of her employer as yet.
Most businesses seem to be putting action plans in place to reduce risk to customers and staff though - what is her employer doing? This should be her next question.
I can see discretionary spend businesses struggling to stay open or not having many customers anyway so it may self-regulate to some extent with fewer people in the same place if at all. Even outdoor places like construction sites are minimising contact eg only one trade and max 2 workers on each newbuild at once is one we have come across.
She can still do a lot to distance herself within the environment - far from perfect I know but there will be many many people still working through this.

Undervalued

50Twuncle said:

She has only worked there for around 9 months and has no underlying health issues but is just extremely worried that customers may have !!

She works with  few dozen colleagues

In which case, subject only to the possible protection outlined by Daniel Godfrey above, she can be dismissed simply by being given a week's notice.

Even if those criteria do apply a defended tribunal claim would take many many months to resolve. Even if she were to win, given the current situation, will the business still be solvent by then and able to pay any compensation? Further, what will she do for income in the meantime?

50Twuncle

Undervalued said:

50Twuncle said:

She has only worked there for around 9 months and has no underlying health issues but is just extremely worried that customers may have !!

She works with  few dozen colleagues

In which case, subject only to the possible protection outlined by Daniel Godfrey above, she can be dismissed simply by being given a week's notice.

Even if those criteria do apply a defended tribunal claim would take many many months to resolve. Even if she were to win, given the current situation, will the business still be solvent by then and able to pay any compensation? Further, what will she do for income in the meantime?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8128807/EVERY-Briton-paid-universal-basic-salary-regardless-means-coronavirus-cash-crisis.html

Undervalued

50Twuncle said:

Undervalued said:

50Twuncle said:

She has only worked there for around 9 months and has no underlying health issues but is just extremely worried that customers may have !!

She works with  few dozen colleagues

In which case, subject only to the possible protection outlined by Daniel Godfrey above, she can be dismissed simply by being given a week's notice.

Even if those criteria do apply a defended tribunal claim would take many many months to resolve. Even if she were to win, given the current situation, will the business still be solvent by then and able to pay any compensation? Further, what will she do for income in the meantime?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8128807/EVERY-Briton-paid-universal-basic-salary-regardless-means-coronavirus-cash-crisis.html

Daily Mail !!!!!

Even that appalling rag, responsible for many of the country's problems, says "could be" in the first few words of the article you link!

I wouldn't believe the Daily mail if the told me it was raining in April without looking out the window to check.