Electric Heating Options & Energy Plans

OxfordRoad

Hello all,

At the end of 2018 my partner and I moved into our first flat and have until now neglected to consider energy plan and need some help!

I have a two bedroom flat without any access to gas mains, meaning I am reliant on using electric central heating. The crux of the question is: what type of electric heating shall I install; and, am I better suited on a standard rate over my current Economy 7 rate? Now for the detail!

The flat has double glazing and concrete floors and ceilings so is fairly well insulated. The flat is formed of:
- One main room (kitchen & lounge) which is heated by a 900W bestelectric radiator. The kitchen and lounge are 3.2m x 2.5 (10'7 x 8'4) and 5.2m x 4.1m (17' x 13'4) respectively, with the radiator attached to the wall between the two rooms. From what I have read online, a 900W is insufficient for a space this size but it seems to do an okay job and I only notice the main room being cold during the coldest months.
- The main bedroom is 3.7m x 3.0m (12'3 x 9'9) and is currently fitted with an ancient Creda 79153 Storage Heater which a bit of Googling has revealed was last manufactured in 1989. This heater is of so little use that we no longer use it and are reliant on a Dyson Hot + Cool fan which was lent to us by my partner's parents. While that does the job, I suspect it is not economical to keep running going forward. (Perhaps we could move the 900W from the main room into here?)
- The second bedroom is 2.9m x 2.6m (9'7 x 8'5) and is fitted with an equally ancient Credit 79151. This room is rarely used as we do not have a bed in there and the storage heater has never been turned on. We would however hope to put a bed in this room and start using it more regularly in the not so distant future.
- A bathroom which has a towel rack radiator which - while clearly quite old - seems to do the job; the room is only cold on the coldest days of the year.
- A "hallway" which has another Creda Storage Heater which is never on and will be removed (and not replaced).

I had a conversation yesterday with a company who sells electric radiators and storage heaters and was advised that I would be best placed installing electric radiators over storage heaters and moving to a standard rate over my Economy 7 rate. The thinking was that because I already have an electric radiator which is being using during the day I am currently paying a premium for my day time electricity and would be better placed on a standard rate. I am minded to agree with this as I am leaning away from storage heaters; I understand that storage heaters release the least heat in the evening which is when we spend most of our time in the flat.

Apologies for all the detail but hopefully it is all useful! Any help is appreciated.

Cardew

Firstly you need to appreciate that ALL electrical heaters are 100% efficient in that they deliver EXACTLY the same amount of heat for the electricity consumed. That applies to a £10 fan heater from Argos or heaters costing a fortune and marketed by scam merchants who imply they are more efficient - they aint!

The second thing is that there is no need to accurately estimate the size of heater required for a room. A 3kW heater delivering X amount of heat into a room, will cost no more to run than a 1kW heater delivering the same amount of heat.

A properly functioning and properly operated Storage heater is still the cheapest way to heat a flat. However you need to get the best tariff available as off-peak(E7) prices vary a great deal.  Your Creda Storage Heaters will still be as efficient as brand new Storage heaters in that the heat they both deliver will cost the same. However older storage heaters can 'leak' heat during the day.

Raxiel

Any kind of electric heating is expensive, but (without getting into things like heat pumps) storage heaters (Besides the capital cost) are the least worst option, provided the heat retention mechanism is still working and properly set.

I had a conversation yesterday with a company who sells electric radiators and storage heaters and was advised that I would be best placed installing electric radiators over storage heaters

And if they could talk I bet foxes would advise that chicken coops should be left open for fresh air too. Edit: I hadn't noticed they sell storage heaters too, but I still think the salesman was just trying to get you to buy all new electric rads with a nice fat margin.

All electric heaters, from Argos' cheapest to the fanciest snake oil filled 'we don't do price lists, you have to have a consultation' expensive ones all convert electricity to heat at exactly the same efficiency, 1:1 by any measurable amount, only the interface and outside appearance varies.

It is true that using daytime electricity is more expensive on E7, but the idea with storage heaters is to let you charge them up on cheaper night time electricity and release the heat over the next day as it's needed, but you need to set them correctly so they aren't cool by the time you need them.

Gerry1

If you're renting - move.  If you own it, bust a gut to get gas CH.  If you really can't get gas, then you're between a rock and a hard place.

• Keep the E7 meter: if single rate is cheaper, many suppliers will happily offer a single rate without a meter change.  Look at suppliers such as Avro and Yorkshire Energy who have tariffs that can be cost effective even with low usage at night.
  
• Move the hallway storage heater into the living room, read the meters frequently and see whether switching it on only on Friday and Saturday nights is cheaper than using the peak rate heater.
• Don't use an instantaneous electric shower.  Make sure the immersion heater is only used at off peak E7 times (Boost switch must be left switched off).
  
• If you're going to be there for many years, consider clever storage heaters such as Dimplex Quantum that are better at releasing heat only when it's needed.  Alternatively, a heat pump might be viable, but operating them seems to be a black art.  Both solutions have high capital costs.
  

Richie-from-the-Boro

OxfordRoad,

Many many posts in here on your exact question here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3516223/fischer-storage-heaters/p1

You will find information on your exact questions. Best of luck.

OxfordRoad

Thanks all for some really helpful and speedy responses and apologies for the delay in mine!

Cardew said:

The second thing is that there is no need to accurately estimate the size of heater required for a room. A 3kW heater delivering X amount of heat into a room, will cost no more to run than a 1kW heater delivering the same amount of heat.

A properly functioning and properly operated Storage heater is still the cheapest way to heat a flat.

Thanks Cardew - your point around efficiency is a good one! However, while all electric heaters are 100% efficient, surely I need to make sure I have a heater large enough to heat the room? A 1kW heater may be the same cost per unit to run as a 3kW heater but presumably wouldn't be able to heat a large room. Am I missing something here?
Another factor I need to consider is that the older functionality that requires me to set the amount of electricity to be taken in and released each day will be less efficient than a heater with a thermostat. Regardless - agreed that storage heaters are the best option.

Raxiel said:

And if they could talk I bet foxes would advise that chicken coops should be left open for fresh air too. Edit: I hadn't noticed they sell storage heaters too, but I still think the salesman was just trying to get you to buy all new electric rads with a nice fat margin.

I actually started the conversation with the supplier on the basis of installing storage heaters but was told it was cost close to £1900 compared to £1000 for electric heaters. I am not considering buying from the first person I have spoken to but wanted to use it to gauge the potential difference in upfront costs. That said, you have convinced me that storage heaters are the way to go.

Gerry1 said:

If you're renting - move.  If you own it, bust a gut to get gas CH.  If you really can't get gas, then you're between a rock and a hard place.

• Keep the E7 meter: if single rate is cheaper, many suppliers will happily offer a single rate without a meter change.  Look at suppliers such as Avro and Yorkshire Energy who have tariffs that can be cost effective even with low usage at night.
  
• Move the hallway storage heater into the living room, read the meters frequently and see whether switching it on only on Friday and Saturday nights is cheaper than using the peak rate heater.
• Don't use an instantaneous electric shower.  Make sure the immersion heater is only used at off peak E7 times (Boost switch must be left switched off).
  
• If you're going to be there for many years, consider clever storage heaters such as Dimplex Quantum that are better at releasing heat only when it's needed.  Alternatively, a heat pump might be viable, but operating them seems to be a black art.  Both solutions have high capital costs.
  

I am afraid I own the property, Gerry. I love everything about it other than paying through the nose to be perpetually cold! It is a leasehold and I do not think installing gas is on the cards but there is an AGM soon so I will raise it there.
Agreed on sticking with the E7 but I am moving to a cheaper supplier.
I have to admit, I hadn't even begun to consider the cost of shower which does provide instantaneous heat? I am utterly useless at this and only know that we have a conventional boiler and a shower that can be used for hot water whenever. Can you point me in the right direction to help me understand how I can make this more cost effective?

Richie-from-the-Boro said:

OxfordRoad,

Many many posts in here on your exact question here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3516223/fischer-storage-heaters/p1

You will find information on your exact questions. Best of luck.

Thank you very much, Richie. I have read some of your other comments elsewhere and found them really useful.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Need more help from those here, just ask, there are lots of helpful people here my friend. To answer the specifics of your original post you have two options (1) night store E7 cheaper tariff (2) all other more expensive options. Your existing NSH are almost everlasting and can be DIY painted for about £10 from Screwfix. Best of luck. The flat you own (concrete floor/lid) was most likely built local authority and originally extortionate core rate 24/7 (ceiling/underfloor heating), the flat but but you do not its fabrics walls or roof I assume - check your deeds.

Gerry1

OxfordRoad said:

It is a leasehold and I do not think installing gas is on the cards but there is an AGM soon so I will raise it there.

If gas is available in the area, it would be well worthwhile.  Apart from lower bills, it will increase the value of your property and make it easier to sell; many people see lack of AMS and GCH as red lines.   You might miss the property of your dreams if your existing flat is slow to sell !

OxfordRoad said:

I have to admit, I hadn't even begun to consider the cost of shower which does provide instantaneous heat? I am utterly useless at this and only know that we have a conventional boiler and a shower that can be used for hot water whenever. Can you point me in the right direction to help me understand how I can make this more cost effective?

I'd say a conventional boiler is gas powered and drives a wet radiator CH system.  Do you mean a hot tank with an immersion heater or two?

Whatever you have, it needs to heat the water using overnight E7, and that means a hot tank.  Daytime E7 is even more expensive than single rate electricity, so a shower that heats the water as you are using it will be seriously expensive.  You can get away with no hot tank if you have gas (e.g. a combi boiler) but at about five or six times the cost per kWh (check your tariff, perhaps 15p/kWh instead of 2.5p/kWh?) a 10kW instantaneous shower makes no sense with daytime E7.

Petriix

Have you considered an air-to-air heat pump? These are particularly efficient at heating a single space such as the main living area. At best they deliver 3-4kW of heat per 1kW used. At worst they are significantly more efficient than a standard resistive heater.

Richie-from-the-Boro

The O/P said in #1 original post:
"without any access to gas main"

Richie-from-the-Boro

£50 spent gives the O/P oxfordroad an extra option on adequate instantaneous 9.5kW shower in both summer and winter  hot water.cascade in a flat where lack of header inches on mains water pressure allows no other option or when lack of mobility might be a bathing option and avoid a £2,000 'walk in bath' for hygiene.