Euro Car Parks Norwich - POPLA - Rejected 1st Appeal - Help

life4life

Hi Guys! I have read most of the messages/threads for the charge I got from Euro Car Parks in Norwich (details attached below). I have tried option A, emailing the landowner which is an International firm, but I never got a reply. Therefore, I copy/pasted a mix of templates I found here and appealed to them on the website. They rejected the appeal, probably because I don't have a deep knowledge about the topic and I missed something. Now, the POPLA... Is something you do entirely online? I saw appeals of 26 pages long, I am not sure I am competent enough to make such a long and detailed document. Some help about this? Thank you very much in advance!! Amazing forum! 

Ps. The penalty was issued on a rented car.

1. Notice from Hiring Company (Will charge extra £40)

2. Charge Notice Letter



3. My Appeal Template

4. Answer to My Appeal

D_P_Dance

This is not a penalty charge, it is an invoice from an ex clamper for damages for an alleged breach of contract.  It has no authority unless a judge says it has.  Almost certainly the hire company have breached their contract with you by charging you.  If they are members of the BPA direct them towards the memorandum agreed with their trade body.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

BTW, iimo that sign fails to create a contract, read this, 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

 

FWIIW< i believ that this company usually throw in the towel when facing a fast bowler.

Fruitcake

You have two issues here. One is the PCN/NTH and the other is the charge from the hire company.

Deal with the PCN by appealing to PoPLA using all the relevant points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES. 
You did everything right in your initial appeal as far as I can tell so you need to expand on the non-PoFA compliant NTH which must comply with paras 13 and 14 of said Act.

If the scammers failed to provide a copy of the hire agreement or any of the other mandatory documents, and/or failed to meet the timescales of a NTH, then that is what you need to put in your PoPLA appeal. Quote the relevant parts of the PoFA that they have failed to comply with.

In addition you should include and and all of the following that are relevant.
Not the Landowner
No standing (No valid contract) to issue charges
Inadequate signage
Any BPA CoP failures
Grace periods 

Show us your draft before you submit it. Search for other Hire appeals. Go back through the PoPLA Decisions sticky thread and see if you can find any suitable ones you can base yours on.

As above, this is not a penalty nor has any violation occurred, so you should triple check the wording of the hire agreement to see what it says and doesn't say about private parking charges which are nothing but speculative invoices.
If they are not covered then put the £40 charge in dispute with your card provider and tell the hire Co what you have done and why.

You should also point out that they can only pass on the details of the hirer since they have no idea who was driving at the time of the alleged event.
This could have been me, or a parking valet driver, or a friend or family member on their own insurance.
It is wrong for both the hire Co and the parking scammers to assume the hirer was the driver and it cannot be assumed in law.

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

life4life

Thank you for the answers guys, however now I am a little confused.

I haven't found any ticket on the car, indicating the charge. Also, I assume I can't appeal again on their website (with a different template) for this 'invoice'? I am trying to find the definition of 'MP' on the forum but struggling with it... What that means? 

About the £40 charge, from the hiring company, they will refund the amount if I will win (see below). 



Basically, beside notify the MP I have to find a similar template and appeal to POPLA online? Will be beneficial to go back at the carpark and take some photos? (i.e. a view of the entrance of the car park from inside the car, where is actually displayed that sign, how visibile is it from the parking spot used, and if is in such good conditions as showed in the reply). 

TY!!! 

Coupon-mad

You know who your local MP is (Member of Parliament!).

Now, the POPLA... Is something you do entirely online? I saw appeals of 26 pages long, I am not sure I am competent enough to make such a long and detailed document. You do it online to POPLA within 30 days of the rejection letter, and upload to attach your appeal = a several pages long document copied from any other Notice to Hirer POPLA thread.

The POPLA Decisions sticky thread at the top o tfhe forum reports LOADS of hirer cases won and the wording they used.  Start reading it from the END, not the start.  There was a successful one reported by a hirer last week, click on their username and profile and read their main thread and find out how they worded their NTH POPLA appeal. 

Copy and show us!

You can take some photos if you like, about the lack of signs in the same bad lighting.  But DO NOT type saying who was driving, so do not write it in your own words.   Nothing about ''I parked'' or ''I didn't see a sign''!

 That is why the NEWBIES thread post #3 has template POPLA appeal wording!

life4life

Coupon-mad said:

You know who your local MP is (Member of Parliament!).

I am afraid I don't. I relocated from Italy last month so I have no idea where to find the MP.
I can google it, or can I make a claim online? Is something worth to include inside the appeal to POPLA?

life4life

Ok, I will have a read to the Notice to Hirer POPLA thread, I will chose one or two templates, tailor them to my case and post it here for you to review before send it to POPLA! Thank you for all the support btw!! Much appreciated!! 

Coupon-mad

Don't worry about complaining to your MP, then!

MistyZ

life4life said:

Ok, I will have a read to the Notice to Hirer POPLA thread, I will chose one or two templates, tailor them to my case and post it here for you to review before send it to POPLA! Thank you for all the support btw!! Much appreciated!! 

With a hire car POPLA appeal, the PPC's failure to comply with the requirements of the PoFA paras 13 & 14, i.e. that they have not sent the hirer the documents specified in those paragraphs, is key.  So once you've got your head around that and found a POPLA appeal that outlines that failure really clearly, you'll be well on your way.  

Usually, a POPLA appeal which does not identify the driver and 'majors' on these failings is very likely to succeed.  All the other relevant points need to be made well too of course. 

life4life

Hope you all had a nice weekend! So, yesterday I had a visit to the car park to take some photos... I have to admit they have quite few signs around (all of them are attached high on poles, except for 2 that are at street level - very concerned they could stick to this detail to refuse the claim again). Only few areas are not covered (I have placed the car in one of these spots and took some photos too). I will upload some photos to get your advice whether or not to include these in the claim. Ps. The light conditions of the day of the penalty were much darker than now (worth to insert this detail in the claim too?). 

1. The Signs

2. Entrance View 

3. Exit View

5. Best Spots 

life4life

Any advices about the parking signs? 

I also got this.