Euro Car Parks Norwich - POPLA - Rejected 1st Appeal - Help

Umkomaas

Night-time ANPR photos of vehicles are almost always black in nature with the vehicle all but unrecognisable (especially dark coloured vehicles). The camera purpose is as stated in the acronym - ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) - it is not for the purpose of taking a clear photo of the car, or any of its passengers. It has done its job both on entry and departure. In fact it is not even a real photo of your actual number plate, it is a computer representation compiled from the digits the camera has read. Just so you know.  

MothballsWallet

life4life said:

Ok, I will have a read to the Notice to Hirer POPLA thread, I will chose one or two templates, tailor them to my case and post it here for you to review before send it to POPLA! Thank you for all the support btw!! Much appreciated!! 

If I can butt in, if you go to the writetothem.com website, you can enter your UK postcode and it will tell you who your MP is (as well as councillors), and let you write an email to your MP for free, as well as sending you an acknowledgement.

MistyZ

Re. the PPC's so-called evidence - looking back through this thread, looks like you did do the first appeal as hirer?  (As indeed you should have done).  So I wouldn't worry about that too much.  

I assume they do not claim to have sent the hirer the documents specified in the PoFA 13 & 14?  If not, you reiterate that these documents were NOT sent to you.  You say you note that ECP DO NOT claim to have sent them and then state 'therefore this appeal must be allowed'.

Yep, you have 2,000 characters so start with the PoFA failing.  If they do claim to have sent docs, you might want to discuss that here - though obviously the claim would be untrue.  

Refute their so-called evidence in line with your appeal points.  Use abbreviations as long as their meaning is clear, use bullet-point type language: crisp and to the point.

life4life

MistyZ said:

Re. the PPC's so-called evidence - looking back through this thread, looks like you did do the first appeal as hirer?  (As indeed you should have done).  So I wouldn't worry about that too much.  

I assume they do not claim to have sent the hirer the documents specified in the PoFA 13 & 14?  If not, you reiterate that these documents were NOT sent to you.  You say you note that ECP DO NOT claim to have sent them and then state 'therefore this appeal must be allowed'.

Yep, you have 2,000 characters so start with the PoFA failing.  If they do claim to have sent docs, you might want to discuss that here - though obviously the claim would be untrue.  

Refute their so-called evidence in line with your appeal points.  Use abbreviations as long as their meaning is clear, use bullet-point type language: crisp and to the point.

I have uploaded in the thread each paper, document and email I have received. 
Both from the hiring company and the parking company. All I've got has been uploaded here.

The only thing is... 

To rent the car at the time, I used my previous 'UK' address that was in Northern Ireland, because at the time (when I rented the car and arriving directly from Italy) I had no UK address. But then when I sent the first appeal to the parking company (the one as hirer of the vehicle and rejected by them) I used my current UK address.

If the parking company sent the ECP before my first appeal (where I stated my current address) is possible they actually sent the docs specified in the PoFA 13 & 14 to the address in NI (provided by the hiring company)? 

MistyZ

Does ECP's evidence include any claim to have sent the documents to the hirer?  If not, proceed as above. 

The communication you had from the lease company said that the 'issuing body' would be in touch with you to issue a notice in your name - did you get that?  It would be that NTK (effectively a Notice to Hirer) that would most likely be accompanied by the specified hire documents if ECP complied with PoFA 13 & 14.    

However I've yet to hear of any PPC sending those key documents.  So if ECP do claim in their evidence that they sent them to you as hirer, I'd say state again, as you did in your POPLA appeal, that they WERE NOT sent.  Be really definite about this.

Can you check if any post arrived at that NI address?  It'd be good to know I suppose.  But I very much doubt the docs were sent to you as hirer at any address.

I'm just a little concerned that this two addresses thing could cause some sort of issue,  I don't know.  The more experienced regulars may have some thoughts on this.

Whatever happens, do not miss the deadline for commenting on the so-called evidence. 

Umkomaas

Send ECP a SAR, that way you'll know exactly what they have received about you and the vehicle/sent to you. 

nosferatu1001

Or ask your hire company if they sent them to ECP, given only the ire company has the documents they will know for sure

But given the BVRLA agreed with the BPA not to release such info....they wont have released it. 

D_P_Dance

Have to complained to your solicitor? 

life4life

MistyZ said:

Does ECP's evidence include any claim to have sent the documents to the hirer?  If not, proceed as above. 

In car park company evidence about ECP...
- Section 3

- Section 4 (they attached a copy of my 1st appeal to them, this is the only paragraph where I mention the PCN)

- Section 5 (they attached a copy of the rejection of the appeal I've made)
- Section 6

life4life

MistyZ said:

The communication you had from the lease company said that the 'issuing body' would be in touch with you to issue a notice in your name - did you get that?  It would be that NTK (effectively a Notice to Hirer) that would most likely be accompanied by the specified hire documents if ECP complied with PoFA 13 & 14.    

This is what I got from the hiring company (the first email saying I had a penalty).

Dear Sirs, 

We have received a Penalty Charge Notice relating to an incident that occurred during your recent hire of one of our vehicles, which we enclose. The purpose of this letter is to advise you that we have now supplied your details to the issuing body as the driver at the time of the incident. The issuing body will be in contact in due course, issuing you with a replacement notice in your name. In accordance with our Terms and Conditions of Hire we apply a fee (a “Third Party Administration Charge”) to cover the administration costs we incur in handling the original notice. This charge is shown on the traffic violation attachment. The fee is due for payment within 14 days of the date of this letter, details of how to pay are below.

Please ensure you quote the invoice number when making payment. If you do not contact us to make payment within 14 days we will attempt to take the funds from the card used on your rental. 

FAQ's

Who do I contact if I want to appeal the fine?

Please send any appeal or dispute to the issuing body directly, Europcar are unable to assist with this.

I have appealed the fine with the issuing body, do I need to tell you?

No, there is no need to contact us if appealing a fine. We will only refund an administration fee once you supply written proof from the issuing body that they have cancelled the fine/charge.

I don’t understand the administration fee charge?

The administration fee is covered under the terms and conditions of your rental which you can download from our website; www.europcar.co.uk

If you require more information, please contact customerservicesuk@europcar.com

I have successfully appealed my fine with the issuing authority and have written proof of the cancellation?

Please email the written proof to finesuk@europcar.com 

I have another query which isn’t covered in the FAQ’s

Please send your query to finesuk@europcar.com. Alternatively you can contact by Telephone on 0371 384 0235 (charged at the standard rate from a BT landline (or similar) but other networks will vary depending on your service provider)

 Yours faithfully,

--------------------------

Attached there was the notice to keeper and the £40 bill for administration fees, that's it.