MET - 2020 at local BP oveerstay without awareness. Appeal Algorithm advise.

6liuxa

Hi.

Spent hours reading Newbees, MET and other relevant threads, tried hard not to start new thred. And dispite being quite familiar with terminology and legal documents, or just because of that, found it hard to create appeal from sensible and vast information without asking possible same things like many over again.

Issue: Driver recently overstayed in his local (often uses) BP station (normally paid on BP app), from his words used a toilet, bought some fuel (cash trasnaction-though no proof), had a coffee and a chat over the phone that lasted quite a while.  So exceeded unknown time limit and 18 calendar days later, I (registered keeper) received letter NTK, with my car number plates shining in the night. as this happened late evening I can't identify on the photoes in letter driver. (possibly visible online, but i lost it with my IT skills.

All of this was surprise even for me, as I would never think of BP petrol station as parking location before this forum so whent to check over likelehood of spotting such notice boards. Especially if stay close to the car, like me - pay on app petrol stattion visitor.

Questions unclear in random places in forum:

• If a PC - "Parking Company" is BPA or other party member, appeal process varies? How?
  
• If there are some common mistakes by PC, could they be simplified for the process: As if PCN missing something, or NTK interval to receive is delayed, then do Step #1 and #3 on newby forum. (was reading NWBE forum - still cant explain which one is aplicable)
• seen a lot: if missing some thrase that is not on POFLA
  

Whats NEXT: I will use Blueprint template simultaniously with my trial to send driver asking BP petrols station management cancel NTK

Blueprint: (to be sent to MET in appeal page aparently)

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Re PCN number: XXX

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Regards,
Registered Keeper: Name Surname/ Address

THE DRIVER IS NOT IDENTIFIED.

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Then: 

1. Send a letter to local MP (template seen, but who is my local MP? )
2. Send a letter to DPO
3. Send a letter to DVLA
4. Await responce from MET and prepare  another template-tailored responce to POPLA.
5. Wait for their responce and prepare for court/ hopefuly with MSE help.
   

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DID I GOT IT ALL WRONG or CORRECT?

This typical scammers often benefit from targeting non english speakers and so gain the strengh from least defensive.

Fruitcake

The Driver is not involved and should sit on their hands in the corner, and say and do absolutely nothing.

There is a BP filling station at an airport where this happens a lot.

Send the appeal template in blue text from the NEWBIES, from the Keeper. As long as your dates are correct, add a one liner that since the NTK arrived too late for keeper liability to apply because it failed the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012, they should cancel now to save themselves money.

The template you have quoted does not look like the one in the NEWBIES. Only use the current version.

Then: 

1. Send a letter to local MP (template seen, but who is my local MP? )

     You will have to find out who that is because we don't know where you live, nor should we

      2. Send a letter to DPO    

 Asking what?

     3.Send a letter to DVLA

 Asking what?

1. Await responce from MET and prepare  another template-tailored responce to POPLA.
2. Wait for their responce and prepare for court/ hopefuly with MSE help.

D_P_Dance

So exceeded unknown time limit 

Why do you not know the time limit?   Or do you mean that you were unaware of the time limit at the time?  I understand that English is not your first language but in these matters clear and precise use of language is absolutely necessary. 

In answer to your first questions,

1, why do you need to know, you are only concerned with one ATA's appeal. 

2. and 3, I do not understand the questions..  

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Umkomaas

1. Send a letter to local MP (template seen, but who is my local MP?)

I take it you didn't engage in the country's recent General Election?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mps/

6liuxa

Thanks for all your response.

Re-reading, understand what might be not clear in my message, as it was written late night.

1. Driver at no point was aware to be in any limitation on the petrol station parking, that didn’t even cross his mind as this is local to his house. 

2. Yes,English is not my first language, 
3. No it is not a first appeal, 2 went SUCCESSFUL following step-by-step guide. just could not recover old account on MSE. I always tend to settle if it’s my fault, but ALWAYS dispute when NOT.
4. I participate a lot as multilingual interpreter and a lot directing people (Eastern European’s) to various sources/ resources trying to optimise their access to justice/medics and helping onto integration into UK lifestyle. After sending numerous people to MSE, feedback I have - its too complicated!
Now it’s about me, so while going through I try to create step-by-step translated instruction and spread it on to stop “EASYMONEY” for scammers.

I have moved the dates as recommended on Newbies guide retaining calendar count. Though weekends misalign. This is why clarified “calendar” days.

template process:
I took the blueprint template and removed not applicable info. (Assume this should not be done at used as it is).
1. Take template blue text letter
2. Add line - Since the NTK arrived too late for keeper liability to apply because it failed the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012.
3. Send as an appeal letter or fill form on their appeal web (better option)
4. Send template letter to local MP (detail found following link).

6liuxa

Umkomaas said:

1. Send a letter to local MP (template seen, but who is my local MP?)

I take it you didn't engage in the country's recent General Election?

I did engage with elections, but I never was an issue raising person. (Possibly will be)

twhitehousescat

as english is not your first language , and presumably you have a non UK sounding name , sent the appeal to met in your home language 

D_P_Dance

One of the people on the ballot paper you filled in will be your MP.  

Coupon-mad

After sending numerous people to MSE, feedback I have - its too complicated!

That's a shame.  It's easy, as you are finding.
We have a template appeal, template POPLA appeal and template defence for court stage.

6liuxa

Umkomaas

I had found required MP with your and other Guru suggestions/ tips. Thanks.

Fruitcake

Did I got all correct below?

1st - send appeal letter from this link + add NoKeeperLiability point with reason outlined?

2nd- send complaint to MP - (regardless)

3rd- wait response from MET - (to proceed 4th or close)

4th- Prepare POPLA templated letter - (to proceed 5th or close)

5th- Prepare for the Court - returns to MSE for help.

What about the dates, could you please confirm if the 14days NTK to RK are the key point here. In particular I wrote 18 calendar days.

But it’s only 12 working days

D_P_Dance

Yes exceeded without knowledge or feel of limitation. It is local petrol station to home.

Genuine delay as per initial explanation in thread. 

Recently while came for fuel, I have checked the board to find out it is only 30minutes stay. In 11years 1st time noticed poster and read it.

1. It is not my first thread and MSE helped me a lot in the past (3-4 yrs ago) fight random unfair tickets twice.
2. As from programmers background, I wish to assist in creating simplified logical approach, that minimise time to find standard solution.
3. #2 & #3 points where about reading through a lot of threads and notice repeated questions answered similar/same way from elsewhere on MSE by Gurus as you, Coupon-mad, Umkomaas, Fruitcake and others.
1. If PCC Missed Timeframe of submitting NTK - then a)No keepers liability applied, do b)... c)...
2. IF PCC Missing phrasing in NTK, required by PoFA 2012 - then do a)... c)... d)...
4. Send MP complaints letter (regardless of the outcome) as a good practice to raise awareness and hope, someday MP will react and proceed ahead this.

Coupon-mad

It’s not hard to you Gurus operate jargon while dealing this daily/weekly as you become so familiar with the terminology, documents, rights, enforcement, deadlines and consequences. 

Unfortunately, people who come to MSE not familiar with most of the terminology above and at its best - at least read a lot of forum material -  “Newbies” before ask questions in new thread.

1.People like me, looking for the answers not necessarily - all applicable for me, but for other people.

As goes with the teaching someone: you can’t if you don’t understand material or issue yourself.

2.Others, have additional questions in their heads - do they help? How up to date information, Does my NTK, PCN or INVOICE looks the same? As most will see same information, but unfortunately pickup the one, ONLY related to them.

Yes, no doubt turnaround time for question/answer is amazing on MSE. 

I 100% appreciate and grateful to all who support this, volunteer for ordinary people and if there is anyway to add something from me (however small) could make the difference in the overall picture - I would like to support. Everyone have their own strengths and it’s shame  that strong parts of some people not on demand.

Contradictions or suggestions made by other Gurus offered on same thread sometimes a bit confusing. 

Good Example is my case: One Suggested write complaint in other languages. The other said to ignore as the dates where most important part that PPC (MET) missed to fit in (and I still not sure at this point of workdays, calendar days, weekends count, as I had changed dates, without taking into consideration weekends) and as D_P_Dance said: exact wording is crucial.

So only use bluetext template with adding “No liability to RK”paragraph and this should do.

I believe we wish the same - help others, more help, clear story/ message.

twhitehousescat

as english is not your first language , and presumably you have a non UK sounding name , sent the appeal to met in your home language 

twhitehousescat

If this was sarcasm, then not an appreciated one.

If this is a genuine suggestion I can write appeal/ complain in 5 languages on my own as long as it is reasonable and genuine benefit for the purpose exists.

With regards to name: plenty international names that would sound different but spellings are the same- Diana, Martin, David, Andrew, Tom and hundreds of others. 

So if you have nothing useful to say in here, don say at all or kindly  explain yourself.

You are mostly accurate with your other replies, but reading over your latest comments. I’m getting a feeling that 10yr. old using your name.

Didn’t want to publicly post this.

...................................................................................................................................

to late i bloody well have 

not sarcasm , a suggestion 

good luck 

bye bye