Stuck in the middle of LL and estate, not sure where to go from here?

sacha28

I haven't been on this board for quite a while, quite nice to be back (all be it without one prolific poster who helped me so much in the past, not sure what's happened there).
So, I have an issue with our rental and I'm not sure what action to take. We rent the house from a farmer who is an agricultural tenant with a large country estate, so we effectively sub let through the farmer. I'll outline our situation...

Moved in July 2014 (deposit protected correctly) and found previous tenant had removed all but one of the night storage heaters. LL stated that he had ordered previous tenant to replace them before he left but, obviously, he didn't (left under a cloud I think, he did all sorts of weird stuff when he went...like nailing mouldy food in old furniture and locking it in the shed). The one heater that was left is in, what is now, my son's bedroom and has never worked properly (it's on overnight but by 9am the bricks have gone cold). This is something I have raised many times over the years. We have a log burner that I'm not convinced meets any kind of regulations, the back fell off a couple of years ago and he just got a mate to come and stick it back on, but that is our only form of heating.

September 2015 LL handed over our tenancy to his son. We were then informed that the estate want to "take back" the house as it was intended for people who work on his farm, which we don't, therefore he is in breach of his tenancy. We were worried about what that meant to begin with but see it as a positive now. The to-ing and fro-ing between the estate and LL has been ongoing since 2015 yet we have never had anything to do with these negotiations, nobody has bothered to communicate with us, we just get thrown little tiny bits of information as and when the LL feels like giving it.

Onwards....last year, around April/May, I got a call to say there was an electrician on his way to check the electrics in our house as it was 4 years overdue. LL stated that this check had been arranged by the estate, not him. Electrician does his thing and claims the house is actually dangerous, there are issues that need rectifying immediately (the one thing that springs to mind here is that there is a plug socket in the dining room that is, for some unfathomable reason, wired into the emersion tank socket) and he would be back to start the works on Monday (this was Friday). Well blow me, we never saw him again 🙄 I've asked LL many times if he's heard anything from either the estate or the electrician and it's always a no.

So onto the present day.....the house is fast becoming uninhabitable. This winter has been unrelenting and the house is suffering, as are we. We have water running down the bedroom walls, along with the most horrific black mould in my son's and step daughters bedrooms, that has just become unmanageable. We can't dry the room out with heating because we don't have any, we can't air the house because it's too bleddy cold and we can't heat the house up after. We have a dehumidifier that we place in a different room every day but it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference.
The house has absolutely no insulation, it's single skinned walls and the loft is devoid of any type of insulation, so we have been absolutely freezing the past few months.

I contacted the estate in December as the living conditions are becoming more and more depressing and I wanted advice on how to proceed with getting the house back into a decent condition. They were quite sympathetic but said that, ultimately, the onus is on the LL to get the house up to a liveable condition and pay for a heating system to be installed. Apparently my call coincides with a letter they have just sent out to all of their agriculture tenants reminding them of their obligation to ensure any property they sublet meets current and future tenancy legislation, including heating. So I call LL who point blank refuses to consider spending ANY money on the house because the estate are taking possession of the house in September so doesn't make financial sense for him to spend £1000's on a house that won't be his in 9 months (which I kind of get but these issues haven't happened overnight and I have asked so many times over the years for heating of some kind). Then we discover that, last year, he told the estate they could have the house back but he would cut our water supply, which is a borehole on his parents farm, as he's not obligated to provide water. I don't doubt he would either, he literally gives no F's.

So here we are now...in a house that is freezing, wet, mouldy and very depressing. My son eating his breakfast in the mornings with a hat and gloves on make me feel like a failure as a parent. The estate have refused to pay for any repairs/heating as it falls under LL tenancy, LL refuses to spend any money on the house because the house will apparently be back with the estate in a few months.

I've been in constant contact with the estate begging for help with this but they have not been very forthcoming, I even got a rather curt email last week informing me that storm damage assessment over all of their hundreds of other properties, and not our living circumstances, are their priority. We are absolutely stuck in the middle between the 2 of them, nobody seems to be able, or perhaps are willing, to offer a solution.

So where do I go from here?! Just to complicate matters even further, my husband works for the estate (only for 6 months so they could get rid of him at any point for any reason) so we are very mindful that any kind of action will cause massive issues with his employer.
Oh and we can't move because I have just filed for bankruptcy, it's been a really sh*tty year 😔

tom9980

You contact the council environmental health and get them to assess the property.

sacha28

tom9980 said:

You contact the council environmental health and get them to assess the property.

That will undoubtedly cause major issues with my husband's job, will it not? The last thing I want is to be in a shocking house with my husband out of a job because I've rocked the boat and got outside agencies involved 😔

G_M

A number of issues here:

1) change of landlord. When your landlord changed (father to son or to estate whatever) the old and new LLs have a legal duty to inform you in writing. Criminal offence. See Landlord & Tenant Act 1985  S3

2) repairs/improvements. Should always be reported, in writing (letter) to the landlord (your landlord - not the 'estate' or your LL's LL), at the address provided 'for serving notices'. If no such address, rent need not be paid. See Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 S48

3) dangerous and/ or uninhabitable property. Report to Environmental Health who will inspect and serve an Improvement Notice.

4) If, you receive notice to end the tenancy via a S21 after reporting issues (to LL and/or EH), the S21 will be invalid. See   Deregulation Act 2015 (S33)

Also see

* Repairing Obligations: the law, common misconceptions, reporting/enforcing, retaliatory eviction & the new tenant protection (2015)

tom9980

It is the only remedy, you could talk to the estate and warn them you need to take this action to get the landlord to comply, eventually when the estate becomes your landlord they will have to do the work anyway. This way at least the current landlord will possibly be forced to pay for some of the work.

notrouble

sacha28 said:

tom9980 said:

You contact the council environmental health and get them to assess the property.

That will undoubtedly cause major issues with my husband's job, will it not? The last thing I want is to be in a shocking house with my husband out of a job because I've rocked the boat and got outside agencies involved 😔

I was unclear if you have an Agricutural Tenancy. I understood it was your LL who has the AT, and sub-lets to you on an AST, no? But husband works for... your LL? The estate?

The rules for ATs are slightly different so this is important.

But the key is communcation - so if concerned about impact on employment, discuss with the employer. Tea and cake?

sacha28

My husband works for the estate, not the LL, sorry if I wasn't clear.

sacha28

G_M said:

A number of issues here:

1) change of landlord. When your landlord changed (father to son or to estate whatever) the old and new LLs have a legal duty to inform you in writing. Criminal offence. See Landlord & Tenant Act 1985  S3

2) repairs/improvements. Should always be reported, in writing (letter) to the landlord (your landlord - not the 'estate' or your LL's LL), at the address provided 'for serving notices'. If no such address, rent need not be paid. See Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 S48

3) dangerous and/ or uninhabitable property. Report to Environmental Health who will inspect and serve an Improvement Notice.

4) If, you receive notice to end the tenancy via a S21 after reporting issues (to LL and/or EH), the S21 will be invalid. See   Deregulation Act 2015 (S33)

Also see

* Repairing Obligations: the law, common misconceptions, reporting/enforcing, retaliatory eviction & the new tenant protection (2015)

Oh G_M you have returned 😁
We were never informed in writing that the tenancy was changing from father to son, we were actually told in passing once it had happened..."oh you need to pay X the rent now as I've passed it over to him"...that's pretty much how it went!

Regards the electrician thing...we have never been given a report for this visit, again I have raised this many times but have got nowhere. We are the last to know anything and even then we are only told the bare minimum.

I have an address for the LL, I can see his house at the bottom of the field from mine!

[Deleted User]

sacha28 said:

I have an address for the LL, I can see his house at the bottom of the field from mine!

Is this the address for the person you believe to be your landlord based on conversation and word of mouth? or the address that's been given to you for serving notices? 

notrouble

'told in passing' - you mean verbally? If not in writing it's a crim offence - see the Act

Have you written and asked for the elecric report? Have you written stating that you believe the electrics are dangerous. By 'written' I mean to the proper address, in a letter.

'Seeing his house' is not the same as being informed, in writing, of the address the LL wishes to use 'for serving notices' See the Act.

sacha28

Deleted_User said:

sacha28 said:

I have an address for the LL, I can see his house at the bottom of the field from mine!

Is this the address for the person you believe to be your landlord based on conversation and word of mouth? or the address that's been given to you for serving notices? 

Ah the address on our tenancy for serving notice is his father's address, we've had nothing else in writing. It's all a bit of a mess really, isn't it. 

I don't know what to do for the best really, I can't really explain just how messy this could get 😔 our current LL has a reputation for being a rather difficult character (we have never had issues with him but have seen first hand how quick things escalate if you get on the wrong side of him), we withhold rent then he will just cut the water supply and so on and so forth.
Seems we're between a rock and a hard place.