We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide

Parking Charge - ESPE Ltd - Spinningfields - No Stopping Zone

12467

Comments

  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    Possibly do so now - state that as you are afriad their negligent parking company will issue a claim, you will require attendance of a company officer as a witness. You require dates in the next 6 months when a compnay officer, such as th ecompany secretary, will NOT be able to attend a small claims court hearing at *my town*. 
  • m19lka
    m19lka Posts: 19 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    So they have issued proceedings (Gladstones)
    Here is my Defence:




    1. I was the registered keeper of this vehicle. I deny that the 
    Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. It is denied any 'parking charges’ are owed and any debt is 
    denied entirely as there is no keeper liability and no cause for 
    action against me. The Claimant has failed to show locus standi, 
    and I do not believe they have a right to bring this action. 

    3. The original fine was £100, excessive and disproportionate 
    given the nature of the alleged contravention. This is not a 
    genuine pre-estimate of loss. The amount of the loss may not 
    change from £60 for the first 14 days and rise to £100 thereafter. 
      
    4. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient 
    interest in the land or that there are specific terms in its 
    contract to bring an action on its own behalf. As a third party 
    agent, the Claimant may not pursue any charge, unless specifically 
    authorised by the principal. I have the reasonable belief that the 
    Claimant does not have said authority, as I have requested this 
    several times by recorded delivery post and email.

    5. It is denied that the signs can have created a fair or 
    transparent contract with a driver, hence incapable of binding the 
    driver as the Claimant failed to comply with International Parking 
    Company Code of Practice ‘PART E Schedule 1 – Signage’.

    6. There is no indication of where the allegedly controlled area 
    begins and ends, so it is ambiguous for a driver to know they are 
    committing a chargeable parking offence.

    7. I received no Letter Before Claim, from the Claimant or their 
    Solicitor, despite requesting this on the 20th January 2020. .

    8. I offered the Claimant an alternative to legal proceedings, 
    namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent 
    ADR service suited to parking charges but this was ignored.

    9. The fine appeared to increase from £100 to £125 in a "Final 
    Demand Letter". This in itself is an abuse of process.  .

    10.  The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 
    4(5) states the maximum sum recoverable from the keeper is the 
    charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The 
    claim includes an additional £60, for which no calculation or 
    explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double 
    recovery. CPR 44.3 (2) states: ''Where the amount of costs is to 
    be assessed on the standard basis, the court will – (a) only allow 
    costs which are proportionate to the matters in issue. Costs which 
    are disproportionate in amount may be disallowed or reduced even 
    if they were reasonably or necessarily incurred; and (b) resolve 
    any doubt which it may have as to whether costs were reasonably 
    and proportionately incurred or were reasonable and proportionate 
    in amount in favour of the paying party.  .

    11. Whilst quantified costs can be considered on a standard basis, 
    this Claimant's purported costs are disproportionate and do not 
    stand up to scrutiny. It is averred that the Claimant has not paid 
    or incurred such damages/costs or 'legal fees' at all. Any debt 
    collection letters were a standard feature of a low cost business 
    model and are already counted within the parking charge itself.

    12. Parking Eye Ltd v Beavis case is the authority for recovery of 
    the parking charge itself and no more, since that sum (£85) was 
    held to already incorporate the minor costs of an automated 
    private parking business model. There are no losses or damages 
    caused by this business model and Supreme Court Judges held that a 
    parking firm not in possession cannot plead any part of their case 
    in damages. It is indisputable that the alleged 'parking charge' 
    itself is a sum which the Supreme Court found is already inflated 
    to more than comfortably cover the cost of all letters.

    11. Any purported 'legal costs' are denied. Given that robo-claim 
    solicitors and parking firms process thousands of claims handled 
    by admin team or paralegals, I believe that no solicitor is likely 
    to have supervised this current batch of cut & paste claims. 

    12. I myself have probably racked up more costs than the Claimant 
    given the amount of time spent on writing to the MP, Land 
    Registry, BPA, Manchester Council, the Proprietor, and ofcourse 
    over 20 letters to the Claimant which were all ignored.

    13. According to Ladak v DRC Locums a Claimant can only recover 
    the direct and provable costs of the time spent preparing the 
    claim in a legal capacity, not any administration costs allegedly 
    incurred by already remunerated administrative staff.

    14. Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Sch 4 makes clear the will of 
    Parliament regarding parking on private land is that the only sum 
    recoverable is the sum in any compliant 'Notice to Keeper' (and 
    the ceiling for a 'parking charge', as set by the Trade Bodies and 
    the DVLA, is £100). This also depends upon Claimants fully 
    complying with the statute, including 'adequate notice' of the 
    parking charge and prescribed documents served in time/with 
    mandatory wording. It is submitted the Claimant has failed on all 
    counts and the Claimant is well aware their artificially inflated 
    claim, as pleaded, constitutes double recovery.

    15. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis 
    for the sum claimed and it is my position that the poorly pleaded 
    claim discloses no cause of action and no liability in law for any 
    sum at all. The Claimant's vexatious conduct from the outset has 
    been intimidating, misleading and indeed mendacious in terms of 
    the added costs alleged. I invite the Court to dismiss the claim 
    in its entirety.

    16. There are several options available within the Courts' case 
    management powers to prevent vexatious litigants pursuing a wide 
    range of individuals for matters which are near-identical, with 
    meritless claims and artificially inflated costs. I am of the view 
    that private parking firms operate as vexatious litigants and that 
    relief from sanctions should be refused.

    17. The Court is invited to make an Order of its own initiative, 
    dismissing this claim in its entirety and to allow me such costs 
    as are permissible under Civil Procedure Rule 27.14 on the 
    indemnity basis, taking judicial note of the wholly unreasonable 
    conduct of this Claimant, not least due to the abuse of process in 
    repeatedly attempting to claim fanciful costs which they are not 
    entitled to recover. I direct the Court to a recent case by DJ 
    Stringer in Derby whereby £511.60 in costs was awarded for 
    unreasonable behaviour by the Claimant, an entirely similar 
    Parking Operator to the Claimant.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 44,416 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 22 July 2020 at 11:28AM
    Why aren't you using the standard template defence for all cases where an additional charge is claimed?  You are praying in aid the PE v Beavis case on costs, yet in the same breath claiming the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss, the now near futility of which was confirmed by The Supreme Court in PE v Beavis!

    You will find the defence template in one of the 5 'Announcements' shown at the top of the forum thread list.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    #Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,296 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    m19lka said:
    So they have issued proceedings (Gladstones)
    Then please tell us the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form.
  • John464
    John464 Posts: 365 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    just to add
    (11) its copy and paste, not cut and paste (thats where you delete it from where you copied it from)
  • m19lka
    m19lka Posts: 19 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    Hello,

    Gladstones have not backed down and now it is listed for a paper hearing to be dealt with by the judge. I have until 12 Dec to file my bundle which I am getting in order.

    Main thing i am focusing on is my Witness Statement.

    My Defence was very detailed and thorough

    Are there any wins against Gladstones for me to cite in my own case (Proper Judgments) - I have been through multiple threads and only find comments from those that have successfully won as oppose to cases I can cite in my own case.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 161,752 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    A paper hearing...the thing we TELL EVERYONE TO SAY NO TO because you are more likely to lose? 

    Why have you not replied to that Order saying NO?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 26,370 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Within this thread about telephone hearings are some reasons why it is not a good idea to have a hearing "on papers": -
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6130456/telephone-hearings-re-parking-firm-claims-can-we-all-discuss-strategy-and-outcomes-here/p1

  • m19lka
    m19lka Posts: 19 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper
    A paper hearing...the thing we TELL EVERYONE TO SAY NO TO because you are more likely to lose? 

    Why have you not replied to that Order saying NO?
    Le_Kirk said:
    Within this thread about telephone hearings are some reasons why it is not a good idea to have a hearing "on papers": -
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6130456/telephone-hearings-re-parking-firm-claims-can-we-all-discuss-strategy-and-outcomes-here/p1

    I chose a paper hearing as I had filed a comprehensive bundle whereas the other side filed next to nil.
    An oral hearing would have provided an opportunity for the other side to put forward further submissions.

    Won the case in any event - main reason being the judge agreed there was no clear "starting point" and "finishing point" for the No-Stopping Zone as they failed to produce a map or otherwise address this in their "bundle" as such, judge had no alternative to find in my favor. 

    Minor points included the usual - small size font of the sign, limited number of signs etc

    But, I must add despite my arguments with precedents and case law to back it up, the judge did not mention the extra fee's that the parking company had added on and their validity of the same. It would have been nice to see a judgement on that for future cases. But nevertheless, happy with the outcome

    No award for costs in my favour as I did not file a schedule of loss (my fault) but hey - I learnt a lot in the process - didn't expect a monetary reward for the same!
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 26,370 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Nice outcome for you.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 354.5K Banking & Borrowing
  • 254.4K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 455.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 247.4K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 604.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 178.5K Life & Family
  • 261.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.