Charges on my Bill for WIFI calls from my Virgin landline

moshaksar

Hi,

Has anyone else started seeing charges on their Virgin Landline bill for "WIFI" calls?
I have Talk More Anytime, which means i should not get any charges for UK calls, however Virgin over the last few months have started billing me for these calls which are to UK mobile numbers (around 31p per min), but virgin say these are wifi calls, so why am i getting charged when im just calling a regular mobile number even though the end user has some sort of wifi assist setup on their mobile.

Can anyone help???

Thanks

JGB1955

According to https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?p=36010034

Calls to the major mobile operators' numbers are included, however some numbers such as those starting 070 or some of the smaller mobile operators which route calls differently (they look like regular mobile numbers but will be itemised as 'WiFi call') are not included. Examples of these are Lyca mobile, vectone and others which often include packages of cheap calls to other countries.

When complained to virgin that it was impossible to distinguish from a number whether or not it would be included in the talk more anytime package I was given short shrift and told the t&cs were clear that the inclusive calls only applied to numbers allocated to the four main operators EE, O2, Vodafone, Three (and MVNOs using their networks)

JJ_Egan

OP what prefix number are you calling ?

moshaksar

Thanks @JGB1955, for the extra information, and i agree its ridiculous.
@JJ_Egan the numbers were prefixed with 0744 & 0742.

molerat

Loads of posts on various mobile forums.

Ian011

0744 is NOT a premium rate number range. Premium rate numbers start 084, 087, 09 or 118.

All numbers starting 071 to 075, 07624 and 077 to 079 are mobile numbers. These numbers are allocated either to a provider in the UK, or to a provider in CI or IoM.

Where mobile numbers are allocated to a provider with phone masts based in the UK, Ofcom rules cap the Mobile Termination Rate (MTR) at just under 0.49p (£0.0049) per minute. There has been a cap on MTRs for many years. Originally this applied only on calls to mobile numbers allocated to the big five, now four, main mobile providers, but about five years ago it was extended to cover ALL mobile numbers allocated to ALL UK providers, with further reinforcement of those rules about two years ago. It is low termination rates that allow calls to be included in monthly allowances.

A couple of decades ago, numbers starting 07744 (note, 07744, not 0744) and 07755 were allocated to so-called "Wi-Fi services" but most of the services using those numbers have long ago gone out of business. Irrespective of who those numbers are allocated to now, if the current provider has phone masts within the UK, the numbers are covered by the 0.49p per minute MTR cap, and all such numbers should be included in allowances.

Many years ago, LycaMobile used to charge very high MTRs on calls to their mobile numbers but stopped doing so about seven to ten (estimate) years ago - long before the MTR cap imposed by Ofcom came into force. Any phone provider still using the "high MTRs" excuse to try to justify not including calls to some UK mobile numbers within allowances, must be unaware of the changes made by Ofcom in the last five years (or is simply lying).

Note that mobile numbers allocated in CI and IoM do still have high MTRs and because of this these calls are still excluded from allowances.

More recently, the status of the  070 Personal Numbers range has changed. This used to have Termination Rates of up to 40p per minute. On 1 October 2019, the rate was capped at the same 0.49p per minute rate as for calls to UK mobile numbers. Ofcom "expects providers to include calls to 070 numbers in allowances on the same basis as calls to UK mobile numbers, or otherwise charge calls to 070 numbers at the same (or lower) rate as a call to a UK mobile number".

Within the 07 range, the only numbers that might conceivably be referred to as "premium rate" are some of the numbers starting 076 as used for contacting various paging and messaging systems. 

This is one occasion where I would recommend dropping a line to Ofcom. They took steps five years ago, and enhanced them two years ago, to eradicate differential charging for calls to UK numbers within the mobile number ranges. More recently Ofcom added the 070 Personal Numbers range to the 0.49p per minute termination rate cap. The only exceptions within the 07 range should be mobile numbers allocated in CI or IoM (these are outside of the UK) and Pager Numbers starting 076 (these are not mobile numbers).

I wrote several very detailed posts on these changes as they occured. Forum search should find those if you need even more detail. Ofcom also published a detailed list of providers and number ranges covered by the MTR cap. It's in the Statement following the MTR Review carried out in 2017, published around March or April 2018 (from memory). An earlier version of the list appears in the Statement following the MTR Review carried out in 2014, published around March or April 2015.


See also

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5224090/beware-of-signing-up-to-any-deal-with-inclusive-calls-to-08-numbers
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5255293/isle-of-man-phone-charges
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5295051/is-your-provider-still-charging-extra-for-non-mobile-numbers
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5425338/ee-text-charges-to-school
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5425727/callers-will-no-longer-pay-a-premium-for-calling-mobile-numbers-from-landlines
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5498849/id-mobile-number
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5565700/cheaper-calls-to-jersey-guernsey-and-isle-of-man-are-coming (although the prediction has not yet come true).
... and others.

redux

All 0742 numbers are allocated to EE, Lycamobile, Vodafone and Three

Same for the vast majority of 0744 numbers, though there are a handful which may be in use with VoIP-like providers that connect with an app rather than a SIM card.

Even so, most networks now include these, as Ian011 discusses above.

Ian011

It would be useful to know the next five digits after the leading zero in order to confirm the exact number block and therefore which provider it was originally allocated to. VM appears to be continuing to profiteer some five years after Ofcom removed the basis (high termination rates) for excluding calls to some UK mobile numbers from allowances or otherwise charging these calls at a higher rate than for calls to other UK mobile numbers.

Oh, and the guff posted on cableforum is at least five years out of date.

moshaksar

The numbers were 074400625** & 074240546**
I think i will write to Ofcom.

Thanks

Ian011

Both number ranges, 07424 0xxxxx and 07440 0xxxxx, are allocated to LycaMobile.

This is a UK mobile provider (as opposed to CI or IoM) and their termination rate is at or below the cap set by Ofcom.

There is no reason for calls to these numbers to be excluded from allowances. 

See the table on page 125 here:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0022/112459/MCT-review-statement-annexes-115.pdf

frankfish

The codes are allocated to fw7 chargeband, as mentioned above the fwXX chargebands were initially classified as "Wi-Fi Services" so that is why the term Wi-Fi is appearing on your bill, I think some companies only include the 'main' Mobile chargebands in the free call bundles i.e. FM1, FM3, FM6 etc, will be hidden in the small print, despite he fact the terminations rates are the same as the majority of fwXX calls