IPC Member - had to fess up my ID as driver to spare in-laws - appeal again or just wait for court?

Coupon-mad

Please email the CIS letter to Gemma Dorans at the BPA (CIS are a BPA AOS member despite the PPC being IPC).  Mrs Dorans is looking into two other examples of that letter from that firm. 

They CANNOT use the misleading word 'summons' so make it clear that is what you are complaining about, not the PPC who are not BPA AOS members. 

gemma.d@britishparking.co.uk

Tonofun

Hi all,
After numerous threatening letters popping through my letterbox the past few weeks and months, the last one with a great big yellow box with 'SUMMONS' emblazened in caps, preceeded with the smaller text 'Notice of intention to instruct solicitor to issue...', I've today received a much simpler looking letter with the heading 'Letter Before Claim'.

It goes on to explain their intentions to issue legal proceedings for 'recovery', and that this is their 'Letter Before Claim' as required by 'Pre-action Protocol'...  Don't contact us, contact our agents etc.  I can still make the full payment by phone or website yada yada.  Finally, 'The amount shown above (£160, £100 charge + £60 'admin' fee) will not increase if the debt is paid prior to the issue of the County Court Summons.'

It finishes with a note about a link to the Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims pdf (debt-pap.pdf) on the Justice.gov.uk website, and that 'failure to provide the information requested within 30 days of the date of this letter could lead to a court claim against you including additional costs and interest'.

It hasn't actually said what information it is I am supposed to provide or to whom though.  I haven't read the 'debt-pap.pdf' file yet, so maybe it's in there.

I'm amazed that they can legally call this a 'debt' though - I haven't borrowed any money from them nor agreed to pay them a thing.  This still sounds a bit like another 'we're going to do something if you don't pay up' letter though, just with more legalese thrown in.

Coupon-mad

You should have been expecting this LBC and the inevitable claim. This is fully explained in the NEWBIES thread telling you what to do at each stage and why you need a SAR of you haven't done that already.

Did you send that email to Gemma Dorans?  She will investigate, as they can't use the word Summons.

They are called 'debts' because PPCs use the PAP for debt claims, but that needs to stop and they need their own practice direction, as well as reining in by Government.  As a real victim of a PPC scam, you need to join in with our voice (please):

Get ANGRY and GET EVEN about this scam! 

Please now make a real difference because not enough people have::

A TASK FOR SEPTEMBER:

The Government is (this month only) consulting about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework to rein in the rogue parking firms.  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation, and get everyone you know to do the same.

You will need to register to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker, but otherwise it is easy to navigate, and comment upon each section/subsection individually. You can save comments to edit later and or submit comments once you are happy with them.

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

You do not need to register to comment on the enforcement framework which can be found here. It has a link on page 5 to make comments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/913272/Code_Enforcement_Framework_consultation.pdf

At the very least, we say the parking charge level should be £50/£25 or higher level £70/£35, as per Council PCNs in E&W.  

And we say the added fake 'debt recovery' costs are just double counting the cost of letters and MUST GO.  Remove that layer and you remove the ‘drivers’ behind the race to court.

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

Responses into the PAS 232 and MHCLG framework documents are not completely straightforward:

On the MHCLG response, you have to answer the questions on a 1-5 scale from strongly agree to strongly disagree, and then put some commentary. No way to upload documents or alternatives.

 

On the PAS 232, you have to click on each clause and sub-clause to put your comments, and a suggested rewording of their draft.  You can see comments which other people have written! 

 

But, when you click ‘submit’, a message pops up to say your comments have been received, but that only applies to the particular clause you have just addressed.

 

You have to click ‘submit’ separately for each individual clause response.

 

Some people will be caught out by this but can revisit it and add further responses up to 12 October.

 

 

Timeouts

You must read the Newbies thread again if you want to succeed.

I will say that CIS are as thick as two short planks for saying SUMMONS ???   It is clear they do not understand the difference between "summons" and "claim" ?   What has the BPA said ?

Forgetting all the junk from debt collectors, they are history now for you.  CIS threatened solicitors so who issued the LBA ?   
CIS now have a major problem, which is to explain to the court about the £60 admin fee which is not allowed and just a feeble attempt to mislead the court ....... it's called Double Recovery

Don't be misled, they are saying to pay their agents ... who will be the inept debt collectors.
DO NOT BE BULLIED into paying the scam

BrownTrout

what you have received i DONT believe to be a genuine LBC, its part of the mail shot from CIS/TNC, i assume it tells you to pay CIS......

Tonofun

Coupon-mad said:

A TASK FOR SEPTEMBER:
The Government is (this month only) consulting about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework to rein in the rogue parking firms.  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation, and get everyone you know to do the same.

Cheers for pointing this out!!  I've just added my comments on the Parking Code Enforcement Framework, and I've registered on the BSI site for now to add my comments there later.  This all looks quite promising for real reform, doesn't it?

Coupon-mad

Yes it does...but the more the public comments the better.  We are all doing our bit, so thankyou.

Tonofun

Hey, just wanted to say thanks again to all of you who so selflessly help out people like myself here.
Just re-read the Newbies section about the Letter Before Claim stage, and I've now looked through the 'debt-pap.pdf' document.

So they haven't bothered to include as per the PAP the origin of the agreement which the debt arises from, nor did they bother to include the Information Sheet or the Reply Form.  Anyway, I won't bother replying as suggested and will get started with the SAR next. 

Thanks again all.

Tonofun

Don't think I have any contact info for any solicitor as yet to e-mail with the 'I'm seeking debt advice but deny any debt...' bit.  Guess I have to wait for that part.  SAR e-mail sent.

KeithP

Tonofun said:

Don't think I have any contact info for any solicitor as yet to e-mail with the 'I'm seeking debt advice but deny any debt...' bit.

Your "seeking debt advice so delay issuing a claim for thirty days" email goes to whoever issued the Letter of Claim - beit a solicitor or not.

But then again, as mentioned earlier by @BrownTrout, it doesn't look like a Letter of Claim to me either.