Pension credit possible overpay family member. ment deceased

Matt_73

Alice_Holt said:

"They wanted to know when all this happened and they had been told this all by us when she first went into hospital at the start of the summer last year as she was in receipt of attendance allowance,"
Did her AA stop after 28 days, when you told the DWP this?

"Going into hospital, residential care or a hospice

You or someone acting on your behalf should also tell the DWP (Disability and Carers Service in Northern Ireland) if you have been admitted to a hospital, a care home or a hospice, as this may affect your benefit.

Going into hospital

Attendance Allowance is not payable after the first 28 days in hospital.

Going into a care home

Attendance Allowance is not payable after the first 28 days in a care home, unless you are completely self-funding.

Special rules apply if your council or trust is temporarily funding your stay in a care home while you sell your former home. Seek advice if you are in this situation."
https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/financial-support/help-with-benefits/attendance-allowance

Are you being told by the DWP that there is an AA overpayment? 

Thanks for all the information, it's all so confusing. 
My Father in laws brother was dealing with her affairs before she passed at which point I took it over as my Father in law couldn't cope with it all. 
Her AA payments stopped when it was discovered she had been in hospital as my father in laws brother contacted the DWP. 
When she passed I was just given a massive pile of paperwork, sorted her council house out etc. 
All I've quoted in my posts is everything I've learned over the last few weeks as I had no idea how everything worked up until then. 
One thing I'm finding confusing is I have a copy of her pension credit award letter from Feb 2019 which says "you have an assessed income period from 29th Oct 2012 to October 2017" Does that mean when her AIP ended in Oct 2017 it carried on as the letter that this is said is dated Feb 2019?

Matt_73

jonesMUFCforever said:

I have had history of the DWP doing this to me after a family member dies - they will not tell you that an AIP has been applied or not.
I was able to ask them this, after getting a lot of help from LegalBeagles - and a  lot of stress I did eventually get a letter that nothing was due.
I would not bother gathering information such as historic bank statements until they can PROVE that anything is due - if the AIP has been applied they can do NOTHING - as that states they do not need to contact the DWP to update their circumstances even if they had won the lottery.

I've read nightmare stories. 
I don't want to get shafted by the DWP. 

I know she had AIP from 2007 to 2012 and 2012 to 2017. I just don't know from 2017 until her passing in August 2019.
So you were asked for statements even though AIP was in place? If that's the case I might just phone them up and say we now AIP was in place for 07 to 12 and 12 to 17 and ask them if it was for 2017 onwards. 

calcotti

My understanding is that no new AIPs were created after 6th April 2016 so if the existing AIP ended in 2017 it appears likely that after that date there would be no AIP.

Alice_Holt

calcotti said:

My understanding is that no new AIPs were created after 6th April 2016 so if the existing AIP ended in 2017 it appears likely that after that date there would be no AIP.

     That is my understanding, too.

     If she had savings of over £10k when the AIP ended, then these should have notified to the DWP and a tariff income (£1 for every £500) used to reduce the PC.  Having more than £10k savings is maybe is what has resulted in the overpayment that the DWP think has occurred.   
  So (for instance and approximately) savings of £20k would result in a £20 reduction per week in her PC. 
(Being £20k less the £10k allowance, divided by 500).

I would see what the DWP say from the info you have sent, and then try to check any DWP assumptions and calculations.   

OP - in the paperwork is there any correspondence from the DWP at the end of the AIP requesting info and clarifying how her PC will be calculated from then on?
I would have thought the DWP would need to send something like this, otherwise the claimant would not have been informed of their responsibilities - if this wasn't done by the DWP - could this be a factor in contesting an overpayment, I wonder?

Matt_73

calcotti said:

My understanding is that no new AIPs were created after 6th April 2016 so if the existing AIP ended in 2017 it appears likely that after that date there would be no AIP.

Yes that's what I've read BUT I've also read that that's only for new claimants and if your over 75 before April 6th 2016 and already a claimant in many cases it becomes indefinate.

Calcotti, It's fine if something has to be paid back BUT how do you think it would work from when her AIP ended in Oct 2017, yearly? If not you would be on the phone to the DWP a number of times a week as monies come in and go out, surely that not feasible? 

calcotti

Matt_73 said:.

Calcotti, It's fine if something has to be paid back BUT how do you think it would work from when her AIP ended in Oct 2017, yearly? If not you would be on the phone to the DWP a number of times a week as monies come in and go out, surely that not feasible? 

I agree that the practicality of reporting fluctuating capital is a challenge. In theory you look at a monthly period. You have X coming in and Y going out. During the month the money coming in is income not capital. At the end of the month the difference between X and Y is a change in capital (whether up or down). As Alice explained above the amount of Pension Credit is only affected once capital goes over £10,000 and only for each £500 or part thereof. So once capital goes over £10,000 DWP have to be told. They do not need to be told again until it either falls back below £10,000 or goes over £10,500. They don’t need to know every fluctuation along the way. That’s my opinion but I am not aware of any DWP guidance on this.

calcotti

Matt_73 said:

calcotti said:

My understanding is that no new AIPs were created after 6th April 2016 so if the existing AIP ended in 2017 it appears likely that after that date there would be no AIP.

Yes that's what I've read BUT I've also read that that's only for new claimants and if your over 75 before April 6th 2016 and already a claimant in many cases it becomes indefinate.

My reading is that there are two different situations.

• if an indefinite AIP was already in place it continued.
• if a fixed term AIP existed it carried on until the prescribed end date or 2019, whichever was sooner.

i haven’t read anything to suggest that previous fixed term AIPs were converted to indefinitely ones.

[Managing quotes and formatting replies on this new forum is doing my head in - hopefully it will get easier!]

Matt_73

Alice_Holt said:

calcotti said:

My understanding is that no new AIPs were created after 6th April 2016 so if the existing AIP ended in 2017 it appears likely that after that date there would be no AIP.

     That is my understanding, too.

     If she had savings of over £10k when the AIP ended, then these should have notified to the DWP and a tariff income (£1 for every £500) used to reduce the PC.  Having more than £10k savings is maybe is what has resulted in the overpayment that the DWP think has occurred.   
  So (for instance and approximately) savings of £20k would result in a £20 reduction per week in her PC. 
(Being £20k less the £10k allowance, divided by 500).

I would see what the DWP say from the info you have sent, and then try to check any DWP assumptions and calculations.   

OP - in the paperwork is there any correspondence from the DWP at the end of the AIP requesting info and clarifying how her PC will be calculated from then on?
I would have thought the DWP would need to send something like this, otherwise the claimant would not have been informed of their responsibilities - if this wasn't done by the DWP - could this be a factor in contesting an overpayment, I wonder?

No, no paperwork. 

I'm still awaiting some statements that covered Oct 2017 when the five year AIP ended.
Surely even if she had no AIP she would be asked for what savings she had in Oct 2017 then Oct 2018. You wouldn't need to report changes between some sort of set periods or every payment in and out would require a phonecall to the DWP.

I can then work everything out. 
I've had the statements from when her first AIP was set in 2007 which was savings of less than £10000 so that doesn't matter.
I have the statements from when her AIP was set in 2012, I thought it was slightly over £10000 but just rechecked and its under £10000 so that doesn't matter either.

I think Im just going to phone the DWP to find out what happens after Oct 2017 when then AIP finished.
Will ask if it became indefinate. 
If it was done yearly. 
What she she declared. 

I really want to work everything out for myself and put it in a letter with the requested statements, so will ask for how everything worked from Oct 2017 onwards. 

anmarj

No AIp, indefinite or otherwise were set after April 2016, so would not of have one set after October 17. Every year a letter is sent out which breaks-down the entitlement along with a booklet, INF4, which details changes that had to be reported. The responsibility was put back on the claimant to report changes, so therefore when your late aunt got the letter, she should have checked and called in with changes. But claimant’s don’t, and that is when overpayments occur.

badmemory

What will have triggered this letter is the actual figure used in the probate.  They appear to have people whose job it is to check these figures.  It often happens when people die owning property they have been living in which is not counted when claiming & therefore their assets seem to be too high. 

They do not know how the asset (probate) figure was achieved.  It could be through a diamond engagement ring worth £100K or the house they were living in.  Yes the whole thing is very upsetting, especially when being sent at a time when the family is already upset.  So start by checking the probate filing.  What did it include.  Was there any income such as life insurance included that would not have been present before she died.

Even banks are more sensitive to the recently bereaved than the DWP.